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  • Universal clear over Kirker/LDS

    When shooting universal clear over Kirker enamel, should I use Kirker's Laser Dry (basemaker/flattener) or shoot the Kirker as a single stage before clearing?

  • #2
    Does Kirker have a clear they recommend? I have no clue about this stuff.

    If not, as a safety factor you might look at an omni or even a demension clear for compatibility purposes.
    Barry@kives.net
    404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
    706-781-2220 Office

    Comment


    • #3
      That seems to contradict "Uses: This clear can be used on any job whether all-over or spot. This clear can also be sprayed
      over anyone’s base coat and over any activated single stage paint after four hours, although preferably wait over night. Because this clear buffs so well, it’s an excellent
      choice for custom paint jobs and motorcycle gas tanks." taken from your UC tech sheet.

      The paint in question is activated which meets the criteria above and when I ordered the UC nothing I said (I don't remember the full conversation) seemed to raise any flags with your staff. So, is there a test I can do that would give results in a short time (lifting, solvent pop) or what?

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      • #4
        It will work but you are going from one end of the quality scale to the other end and that scares me, not short term but long term, sometimes lower grade products will work better over certain things long term.

        Yes it will work.
        Barry@kives.net
        404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
        706-781-2220 Office

        Comment


        • #5
          Either way you go, contact Kirker and find out how long you are allowed to wait before applying clear. You'll want to wait as long as possible before applying the clear.

          If your base color is a metallic, do a test panel to see if the clear is going to move the metallic around. You'll need to adjust your technique if it does.

          Most of us have discovered the hard way that just because a cheap base color can be made to work, it's not without the risk of problems, and that applies to all high tech clears, not just SPI.

          Comment


          • #6
            Long story short, but when I bought the Kirker paints a couple of years ago I did so out of being poor and I couldn't find one negative review from an actual user. Sure, many post "it's crap", but none of those claim to have used it. Even today I can't find any harsh remarks from actual users - only armchair quarterbacks. Users state it's "OK" or better with most concerns being related to flowout and that fits what I'm doing. Nowadays, I'm not quite as poor but I can't stand the thought of wasting it. No metallics here. What are some potential problems having it as a basecoat sandwiched between spi Epoxy and UC? I can test for quick problems but what are some long term issues that could pop up? Many thanks for the discussion!

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            • #7
              Understand your frustrations for finding info but shops don't use it and that is why the poor feedback, lot of the users never painted before using, is another problem.

              Only person I know that uses it, was Jim Clark on here (the other Jimc, as he says)
              He is an expert on the stuff, pm him, he will help you out.
              Barry@kives.net
              404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
              706-781-2220 Office

              Comment


              • #8
                The main problem I have had adapting slow drying low end base coats to function with new high solids clears is contraction or dieback of the clear due to solvents remaining in (or being re-absorbed out of)the clear by the base coat. To minimize this, allow plenty of dry time before clear. Using SPI reducer in the base coat (if possible) can help too, since this helps make the solvent blend of the base more compatible with the clear. Allowing plenty of flash time between every coat of base and between coats of clear also helps ensure a glossy finish.

                Basically the point is to take your time, the longer, the better in most cases. The exception to this is products with a "recoat window," which is why it's important to get advice from the maker of the product as to maximum flash times.

                In extreme cases, delamination can result from solvents being trapped under the finish. I'm sure Barry can add more to this aspect and others, I have not experienced delam with the products I am using.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's my experience.
                  First, don't use enamel, especially theirs.
                  Second, Never ever use "Lazer Dry" Never, ever.
                  I had a complete delamination useing that stuff,
                  redid it by the book, and it peeled off too.
                  took about 3 yrs both times.
                  (Even the place I bought it from admitted seeing
                  a lot of problems)
                  The first time, everyone said I didn't use it right,
                  So the second time I was very careful to follow directions,
                  same result, enamel pigment turned and then the clear peeled.

                  I painted my car I drive now with Kirker's urethane,
                  then cleared it with SPI Universal.
                  (waited overnight to clear it, no sanding involved)
                  It's been 4 yrs now and it still looks great, their
                  urethane is pretty good stuff. At least I know
                  it is with SPI clear on it. (LOL)
                  I also painted my boat and trailer with Kirker Urethane,
                  It's been real tough against scratches.
                  So go with the urethane if you can and avoid the enamels.
                  JC
                  (It's not custom paint-it's custom sanding)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here's an idea, if what you have is not urethane.

                    You could buy some of the Kirker clear that is specified for use on top of the product you have, apply it, then when it is cured enough, wet sand it and apply the SPI clear. Two clear sessions makes for an outstanding job in any case, and I believe this method would be safest and produce the highest quality. All the wait times between coats would still apply no matter the procedure.

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                    • #11
                      Here's their tech sheets.
                      On the urethane, it says to not go more than 18 hrs
                      before top coating, after that it must be sanded first.
                      Going to soon mottled metallics for me.
                      3 hrs was the quickest I could get away with,
                      waiting overnight did best.

                      http://www.kirkerautomotive.com/html...al_center.html
                      JC
                      (It's not custom paint-it's custom sanding)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by crashtech View Post
                        Here's an idea, if what you have is not urethane.

                        You could buy some of the Kirker clear that is specified for use on top of the product you have, apply it, then when it is cured enough, wet sand it and apply the SPI clear. Two clear sessions makes for an outstanding job in any case, and I believe this method would be safest and produce the highest quality. All the wait times between coats would still apply no matter the procedure.
                        Anyone object to this? I already have the Kirker clear, it's just that I heard so much good about SPI I decided to switch. This could save me some waste even if it's not the ideal solution.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Idea sounds safe to me.
                          Barry@kives.net
                          404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
                          706-781-2220 Office

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have given this a lot of thought and if me, here is how, I would do it.

                            Two coats of the K-clear, let set a couple of days and wet-sand, put outside for two full days, then wash with waterborne and let set 2-3 hours, then apply the SPI.

                            Lots of reasons I say this and there is only one thing I do want to point out.
                            It is a chemical fact, that the best clear in the world, can only do so much to protect a lower grade pigment, JC pointed this out on one of his jobs.
                            Barry@kives.net
                            404-307-9740 OR Text, Tech Line (7 days)
                            706-781-2220 Office

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              armchair quarterbacks ???? once again , a professional painter does not have to use a product to know if it is junk or not. duplicolor , por15 , kirker , cheap 2nd line paint . this is not hr.com. there are no wanabe's here posting advice. what will happen is the cheap kirker will fail and spi will get the blame.
                              SPI Thug !

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