1966 Valiant for the Other Daughter....

JimKueneman

Mopar Nut
Helpful hints for Slick Sand? Is a 2.0 tip large enough? How do you clean your gun between mixes? Assuming you can only mix enough for one gun full at a time?
 

Dean Jenkins

Promoted Users
Helpful hints for Slick Sand? Is a 2.0 tip large enough? How do you clean your gun between mixes? Assuming you can only mix enough for one gun full at a time?
2.0 is just enough.
I clean the gun thoroughly between pots, this is thick stuff and dries fast.
Yes, only mix one full gun at a time, again it dries FAST
 

Dean Jenkins

Promoted Users
2.0 is just enough.
I clean the gun thoroughly between pots, this is thick stuff and dries fast.
Yes, only mix one full gun at a time, again it dries FAST
It is basically sprayable bondo, think of how much time you have when you mix bondo. It is almost that fast.
 

texasking

Promoted Users
I'm on my fifth gallon of the Optex Super Build. It sprays really thick but sands easy (as polyesters go). I shoot it with a 2.3, but a larger tip would be even better on large areas. The 2.0 is marginal for polyesters, IMO, forcing you to move too slowly to avoid dry spray. The advantage to the Optex is the built in guide coat. It sprays pink, but sands to a light gray. I also like the 4:1 mix better than the tubes. You can't go wrong with any of the Evercoat polyesters. The key is starting with a coarse grit (120-150), then it sands easy with 180-220. https://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.c...Polyester-Primer-Surfacer-Gallon-P321950.aspx
 
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dhutton01

Promoted Users
I would add that one coat will likely not be enough. You’ll probably want two coats. Spraying it too thin is just a waste of time imho even though most will end up on the floor or driveway in your case.

I spray with a Sata poly gun that has a 2.5 tip. Goes on fast.

I spray poly over a contrasting color of epoxy so it’s easy to tell when you’ve sanded down to epoxy.

Sand with the longest block you can.

Don
 

orangejuiced86

Garage hack at night.....
I know I always hammer on at least 3 of the superbuild. Most of it comes off anyways when you are really trying to level stuff out.

I spray my poly and urethane with a devilbiss pro-lite 2.3 tip. I know some use the cheap guns and those work good also.
 

orangejuiced86

Garage hack at night.....
Also, Im just gonna add this. If this were my project I would do your heavy bodywork, and then swipe the entire panel top to bottom, side to side with filler and shape it all up with a quality block.

Whether its urethane, poly primer or filler, the entire panel will have some type of "filler" on it. I'd prefer to have actual filler IMO. That's just me though. Swipe the entire panel and then you aren't chasing shit constantly. One panel at a time. It doesn't take that long. After that is complete, one coat of epoxy and then shoot your poly.

At that point you will be able to block the poly once and maybe spot some stuff in and then final prime.

Plenty of ways to skin this cat, just gotta pick your path. You are on the right coarse for sure regardless of the path you take.
 

JimKueneman

Mopar Nut
Also, Im just gonna add this. If this were my project I would do your heavy bodywork, and then swipe the entire panel top to bottom, side to side with filler and shape it all up with a quality block.

Whether its urethane, poly primer or filler, the entire panel will have some type of "filler" on it. I'd prefer to have actual filler IMO. That's just me though. Swipe the entire panel and then you aren't chasing shit constantly. One panel at a time. It doesn't take that long. After that is complete, one coat of epoxy and then shoot your poly.

At that point you will be able to block the poly once and maybe spot some stuff in and then final prime.

Plenty of ways to skin this cat, just gotta pick your path. You are on the right coarse for sure regardless of the path you take.

The other 3 cars are all filler and epoxy (2 have SPI high build 2k). This is my first time with poly primer.. I may end up going back to just filler and epoxy before this is done :)
 
My personal opinion is that polyester primer is the thing to use if your panel has a lot of little issues all over it.
Example:
Front portion of left quarter panel on '65 Buick Convertible.
LH Quarter Filler Work Needed.JPG


Back portion of same panel:
LH Quarter Filler Work Needed 1.JPG


3 coats of G2 Feather Fill using a 1.8 tip (I now use a 2.0).
LH Quarter - Poly Primer.JPG


That was the first time I used polyester primer. The only other time was on the bed of the '69 Chevy truck:

Poly Primer Front Left Quarter.JPG


I block sand the poly primer with 150 grit and then shoot a couple of coats of regular build 2k and block with 320 grit, followed by wet sanding with 600.
Of course using guide coat every step of the way.
 

orangejuiced86

Garage hack at night.....
The other 3 cars are all filler and epoxy (2 have SPI high build 2k). This is my first time with poly primer.. I may end up going back to just filler and epoxy before this is done :)

Once you use poly the way its meant to be used you honestly wont look back. Building with epoxy or poly are probably both good in their own parts. The slick sand you are using has ZERO shrink. The superbuild 4:1 will have a little shrink to it and its smart to let it cure for a few days.

I use 2k primers as a final prime as I feel its easier to sand. At that point im just filling 220 grit and up scratches so im not worried about stuff shrinking up on me. I'll also final prime in epoxy, but I think I prefer the 2k over epoxy when it comes to final blocking, hell its probably a tie the more I think about it.
 

Chad.S

Oldtimer
I try not to send new guys to Wrays channel, as although he does have some useful info, he also does some things absolutely wrong. Someone green may not pick up on those things and thus also learns the wrong way to do things.


Some examples:

A fabricated motorcycle fender should have the ducktail at the bottom added before the crease was put in down through the center. Any crease or fold acts as a lock, and makes it near impossible to add any additional shape afterwards. Thus the extra shape needed on the sides to add the lower tail could not be put in effectively; the center crease should have been the absolute last thing put in and was not. So he painfully struggles through it and never once mentioned that the order should have been changed.

Welding a patch in the top of a fender right up next to the mounting flange (think hood opening) is going to cause shrinking along/adjacent to that flange. As one would expect, the weld area shrunk and formed a low spot at the top of the fender. He attempted to relieve this by hammering things upward. This introduces tension on the flange such that the extra metal now wants to accordion the flange as the metal is looking for somewhere to go. He notices this when the fender is turned over and hammer and dollies the flange flat again. Then his body sweep shows the low again up top, and this process goes back and forth a few times without any light bulb going off in his head......."Houston, we have a problem..." Yes, the weld shrunk the area and until you PLANISH the weld to add STRETCH you will never correctly fix that low.. He never once mentions this actual cause and effect. I would hope at his level he understands that welds shrink.

I always considered Wray a smart cookie but blunders such as these, gone unmentioned, are just teaching others the wrong way to do things and/or not being able to recognize the cause, effect, and proper corrective action. He does a beautiful job on showing metal finishing, but sadly still has a low area where the weld shrunk the panel when he's done. And full disclosure, my work is not perfect, my metal finishing is not up to his standard, and he'll probably forget more than I'll ever know. But I try to learn from my mistakes and will often use those as teaching moments to show others the how and why of what happens when things don't follow the correct process. I try to insure everyone knows cause-effect of weld shrinking/distortion and proper methods to correct. So if anyone needs training videos I normally point them to David Gardiner or Peter Tommasini. Both these gentlemen were trained properly using traditional metalshaping methods and they do a very good job of explaining the basics so you can understand, up to the most difficult.
I actually just watched the videos you are referring to last week. I spent a few weeks with Wray, the knowledge he has is next level for sure, but I do think he sometimes gets ahead of himself, but if I had that much knowledge I'm not sure if I would even know what to do with all of it. lol. He does bounce around a fair amount as well.
 

JimKueneman

Mopar Nut
Jimmy like SlickSand.... A little glaze on a few low spots and man this got flat fast.... Barry said Icing or Dolphin glaze on 2k or poly is ok but not real filler. More sanding tomorrow and then not sure what to do my epoxy got hung up and won't be here till Monday... Maybe SlickSand the trunk and hood Sunday....

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