esab spool arc easy grind wire

N

northerndave

Mig wire.

I recently switched to .023 spool ar easy grind wire. It is advertised to be more malleable, better for plannishing and grinding.

I'm running C25 shielding gas.

Ugly welding with this stuff so far, the weld pool shape overall ends up high like a cold weld, but i'm blowing away panel edges, it's very strange to weld with, the melt characteristics are strange to me, not super predictable and my welds are ugly with this stuff.

It's really making me question my decision to purchase this wire at a premium price... ok, I guess the weld may be more workable for hammer and grinding work. But it's self defeating if I simply end up with more to grind.

Does anyone else use this wire? Have you figured out how to dial it in?
 
I'm curious to see how this goes. I've seen other people have had some decent luck with it, I've thought about getting some but instead I'm just forcing myself to get better with my TIG. Are you practicing on scrap or on a car?
 
I'm on a car.

Things aren't exactly "bad". I'm just frustrated that I can't get my plug welds and butt joint welds to lay out as clean and flat as I have been with ER70S-6.

IMG_20170425_080626176_zpskdkllrev.jpg


IMG_20170425_080607903_zpsfzdfbjuv.jpg


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That was pulling the weld pool slightly vertical down. (so these are some of my better results with it) I can live with it, but I'm feeling a bit desperate to get back on par with what I can achieve with the er70s.

I don't know, I'm just a little frustrated with it.
 
I bought a 10lb spool of this stuff probably 10 years ago, must have about 7lbs left. I found it no easier to grind than any other mig wire. I actually prefer .basic cheap 030 wire for floor pans, plug welds etc.
 
This crap was around $75 for an 11 lb spool.

I guess there's worse ways to blow 75 bucks, at least I don't have a hangover to go with the buyers remorse. lol
 
ER70S6 is designed to be tolerant of contaminants, while the easy grind stuff is probably not. I'm not certain, but maybe more care with prep might help. Also it's probably best to switch it out when welding wheelhouses, I'm assuming you aren't gonna metalfinish that.
 
The spec sheet on the spool arc easy grind specifically talks about being tolerant of contaminants consistent with metal work on older vehicles. I stayed with it in the wheel house area because I wanted to practice with it.

I'm reading about it in old threads on other forums. From those that sound like they have actually used it, it sounds like you have to run the voltage and wire speed a bit lower than you would with er70s6 of the same diameter.

I'll give that a try next, I have some small floor patches to put in this same car.
 
The HAZ does look pretty substantial and the bead doesn't have much definition, so I would bet that you are on the right track. Maybe part of making it easy to work also makes it lower melting.
 
Just tried it again on a small toe board area patch.


Nope, nope, nope... done. lol!

No, just no for now.

This is like when I got sick off southern comfort when I was about 17 and still can't stand the thought of the stuff... nope. I think that's enough esab easy grind for this guy.

I tossed a spool of ER70S6 on and bingo! Back in business.

I do believe I may force myself through another attempt at easy grind but only on open panel butt joints where I will want to be metal finishing with hammer/grind. In those cases I may be able to hold my nose and force myself through it.

But I swear it's like pushing .023 soldering wire, if it aint melting up inside the gun tip I'd be surprised... weird, weird stuff. Melts too fast and cools even faster.

Ick.

I'm so glad I put my regular wire on for the last bit of that patch, I was starting to feel like a fish out of water.
 
Robert McCartney (MP&C) can elaborate further as he uses it but supposedly ER70S-7 is softer, and lays down nicer. Nearly everyone's experience with EZ Grind has been like yours Dave. Robert uses ER70S-7 but it's hard to find and afaik it is only available in .035 and in the big spools; 50lbs. Only your big MIGs can handle that size spool. Maybe Robert can share the link to the forum where he was comparing it to -6 and to EZ Grind.
 
Robert McCartney (MP&C) can elaborate further as he uses it but supposedly ER70S-7 is softer, and lays down nicer. Nearly everyone's experience with EZ Grind has been like yours Dave. Robert uses ER70S-7 but it's hard to find and afaik it is only available in .035 and in the big spools; 50lbs. Only your big MIGs can handle that size spool. Maybe Robert can share the link to the forum where he was comparing it to -6 and to EZ Grind.


I'd be interested to hear about that.
 
Dave, just saw this thread and unfortunately have about four hours until I get ready for work. Will add some details of my experience with the EZG tomorrow..
 
Dave, just saw this thread and unfortunately have about four hours until I get ready for work. Will add some details of my experience with the EZG tomorrow..
I'm on a car.

Things aren't exactly "bad". I'm just frustrated that I can't get my plug welds and butt joint welds to lay out as clean and flat as I have been with ER70S-6.

IMG_20170425_080626176_zpskdkllrev.jpg


IMG_20170425_080607903_zpsfzdfbjuv.jpg


IMG_20170425_085255411_zpscdsaavbh.jpg


That was pulling the weld pool slightly vertical down. (so these are some of my better results with it) I can live with it, but I'm feeling a bit desperate to get back on par with what I can achieve with the er70s.

I don't know, I'm just a little frustrated with it.

I have burned almost two 11 lbs spools of EZ grind. (.024) I also found it took a little getting used to. It seems to like being run a little hotter with maybe just a little slower wire feed but you will get used to it and I think you will like it a lot.

It planishes easier and I never have a problem with cracking a weld. Obviously, it also grinds more easily.

Don't give up on it. I think you will like it.

John


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The quarter panel was made in 6 pieces and welded together with EZ grind.


This door skin would also have been more challenging without EZ Grind.

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f3fa74d56d7e76a6033b89d8e3c1b238_zpszymjecah.jpg
 
I used to borrow a welder from my Dad, using what we think was ezgrind. Worked fine for me. This is the ez grind, vertical uphill:


I have since bought my own welder, and started out with 2lb .024 er70S-2. That stuff welded nice, but was noticeably harder to grind and planish. When that ran out, I started using .025 L56 er70s-6. I'm not sure if I like the s6, it spatters a lot more than I remember from other wires. I just welded up a door edge with it. Wow, it is hard to planish and stretch back to shape. I have been thinking about going back to the ez grind, though the er70S-6 also gets the job done for half the price.
 
Several years ago I requested information on ER70S-2 from a former person of the AWS who also worked for several companies R&D departments, and this is a summary of what he sent.

ER70S-2 carbon 0.04, manganese 1.01, silicon 0.50.
ER70S-3 carbon 0.08 manganese 1.10, silicon 0.50.
ER70S-6 carbon 0.09 manganese 1.60, silicon 0.90.
The main reason ER70S-2 (SpoolArc 65) grinds easier is the lower carbon although ER70S-6 has higher manganese and silicon which also make it even harder to grind!
It was one of the first MIG wires ever sold, that is why the number 2! With AWS designations the last number does not have a meaning other than you have to look at the specification for that number. The 70 refers to the minimum tensile strength in psi, that will be archived. (i.e. minimum is 70,000 psi for an ER70)

For marketing reasons SpoolArc 65 was also sold under the name Easy Grind to the automotive trade in smaller diameters and spool weights. (You might be interested that SpoolArc 65 was used to weld many of the Off-Shore Drill Rigs in the gulf coast by J. Ray McDermott!)
 
I'm on a car.

Things aren't exactly "bad". I'm just frustrated that I can't get my plug welds and butt joint welds to lay out as clean and flat as I have been with ER70S-6.

IMG_20170425_085255411_zpscdsaavbh.jpg


That was pulling the weld pool slightly vertical down. (so these are some of my better results with it) I can live with it, but I'm feeling a bit desperate to get back on par with what I can achieve with the er70s.

I don't know, I'm just a little frustrated with it.


Dave, don't take any of this as picking on your work, as Lord knows I've had my share of mud daubing and other defects in trying to find a suitable method for welding sheet metal using the MIG.. But we need to discuss some things to get to the root of the problem in order to find solution.

It appears you are doing stitch welds approx 1" in length (or so). You have some areas that appear to have good weld penetration and others that appear not to, where the weld is sitting up too high, as you described with the look of a cold joint. Unfortunately we can't tell the true results of the weld penetration without looking at the back side. But I would venture a guess that you have some areas there that do have insufficient weld penetration. Part of the issue is lack of consistency. If you have your welder set up for XX heat range to accomodate your (18? gauge) sheet metal, your weld penetration is going to vary as you travel across and the panel starts to heat up. So this may show better penetration toward the end of your weld pass. Next, trying to continue a weld onto an existing weld poses an issue that you no longer have a requirement for XX heat range, as the previous weld could have changed the panel thickness to as much as 3 or 4 times the thickness at the weld. This in essence changes our heat requirement to a greater amount to properly fuse to the end of that previous weld bead, but the continuation of our weld pass puts us quickly into thin metal again, where we may risk blowing holes.

Through much trial and error, I have changed my MIG welding of sheet metal to a one-dot-at-a time scenario, to overcome these very issues.

Let's say we are installing a lower door skin to repair some rust. The repair panel has been trimmed for zero gap, and the panel is tacked on. We need to insure our heat setting is correct for a full penetration weld DOT, as verified by looking at the back of the panel. (I normally do a test setup on scraps the same thickness. Then, starting your weld tacking of the panel at one end, and work progressively toward the other. Don't skip around from one end to the other as you have a greater chance of misalignment in that you may have more metal on one side than the other, which will result in a buckle from the excess metal to one side of the weld. Start at one end, tack, move an inch or two, align the panels together, make another tack, repeat. This insures the panels are correctly aligned as you work progressively from one side to the other. Be sure to keep your weld tack spacing as consistent a distance as possible.


doorpatchtacked.jpg



Once done with the last tack, go back to the beginning and use a hammer and dolly to planish each weld dot, working in the same start to finish pattern. Now go back to the beginning and use the 3" cutoff wheel to grind the weld dots down to just above flush, both FRONT AND BACK, as this gets the weld prouds out of the way for planishing the next sets of weld dots, and also removes all the excess weld that is acting as a heat sink/adding requirement to change heat setting. I grind to just above panel height for a weld seam like this, and final cleanup with a 3" roloc sander will be used at the end to dress the seam to the parent metal. Here's a video that shows the grinding process, but as this is a plug weld it is dressed immediately following. [/COLOR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2WHT_zMOE8


Now that those welds are down and out of the way, let's add the next set. Here I'll overlap the last set of welds by about 1/3 to 1/2. Whatever the distance of your overlap, keep it consistent throughout.


doorpatchsecondtack.jpg



This method helps to eliminate any missed areas like what may occur if you kept skipping around. Again, start from the same spot you did before, overlap the first weld dot done, go the the next, overlap, repeat, until you get to the end. Then go back and repeat the planish from start to finish, then grind weld dots from start to finish, both FRONT AND BACK, and then repeat the overlap process again. Keep repeating the process until the weld seam has been finished, then use a roloc sander to dress the little bit of remaining weld to flush with parent metal, both front and back side.


If this sounds like a slow, monotonous process, that is the intent. This promotes consistency in the welding process, from fitup through to final welds dressed. At no point is it necessary to cool the welds, by the time planishing and grinding are complete, the welds on the panel are plenty cool to the touch. Any artificial cooling serves no purpose.

Planishing per Ron Covell is to flatten or straighten out a bumpy panel (if I remember that correctly). As it applies to metal shaping, one would use a blocking hammer and a shot bag to add shape to a panel, but once complete it would appear as if it had walnuts all across the surface of the metal. A planishing operation would smooth these out to a more consistent "flat" finish (where flat means the panel has some crown to it, but no more lumps). As it applies to welds, planishing is the use of a hammer and dolly (or other appropriate devices as the job dictates) to add some stretch back into the weld and HAZ for the purpose of negating any of the shrink that has occurred. I would add that seldom will you get it perfect the first time as you go through the weld process as described above. You will always have a bit of planishing to complete after the welds have been dressed out, or even some shrinking if you got too carried away in spots.
 
Just to show some actual pics of weld penetration....


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First set of tacks...


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Weld penetration, the back side....


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Weld, planish, grind, overlap, repeat... Again, grinding after each weld dot gets us back to the original panel thickness (as close as we can) so that our welder heat setting is correct for said thickness (heat load) throughout.


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Planishing as you go helps to keep the panel's shape in check...


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Still needs a bit of bumping but not too bad overall..


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If this seems a bit slow, monotonous, labor intensive, well it is, but it helps to maintain consistency throughout the process of MIG welding sheet metal for consistent results, including good welds with full weld penetration. The hope is that any novice can take a point and shoot of the MIG and be able to get accurate, repeatable results. The side effect, and desired result, is that you will see exactly how much work goes into welding sheet metal with consistency using the MIG, where you will opt for a TIG or OA process that should give you better control of input heat that you can revert to a full weld pass from one end to the other (after tacking in place, of course) using TIG or OA and have better results with MUCH LESS cleanup afterward..
 
MIG welding sheet metal....... First and foremost, you want a full penetration weld. Next, do what is needed for consistency and then, what you can do to lessen the amount of work required. As Chris stated above, I have used ER70S-7 wire and found it to lay MUCH, MUCH flatter than that of ER70S-6, which is what comes with most welders. The way I understand it the -7 contains a slight bit more Manganese for better wetting, ie: flowout of the weld puddle. So the flatter the weld, the less grinding. The unfortunate thing is that there are few US companies that produce this wire in .023 diameter, much less in an 11 lb spool needed for the welders used by most hobbyists. You can still get EZ Grind, and yes, it is expensive. In comparing EZG to -7, I found them comparable in weld flow out, but saw a bit more splatter with the EZ grind. You can find the -7 from Blue Demon, which is a product of China, so I would suggest test coupons with this or any welding wire change to best dial it in for your particular applications..

Here is some testing of welding wire, ER70S-7 welding wire from Blue Demon in .023 diameter. But also, we played with various heat settings.. It has been my experience that heat control does not always equate to a turn of the dial on the heat setting.

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I have a Miller 211 Mig, and here is the heat settings, and you can also see around the dial the "suggested" material thickness for said settings.


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Before changing out the wire in the machine, lets do a test of the .023 EZ Grind wire.


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rear view of weld penetration.....

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Then changed to the .023 ER70S-7 wire with no change in the heat settings...


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rear view of weld penetration....

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Even though we were using 19 ga (.041 thick) panels and the heat setting was for between 16 and 14 gauge, the welds looks like they are sitting a bit proud. There was good weld penetration, but looked like the weld was sitting a bit high. So lets turn up the heat to see if it helps any..

Heat set to 6 (14 ga - 1/8") and then 7 (1/8-3/16), still the S-7 wire

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rear view of weld penetration....

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Heat set to 8 (3/16) and then 9 (1/4")

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rear view of weld penetration...

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The comparison between the EZ Grind and the S-7 was really negligible. The Blue Demon is a product of China, but is about our only choice for the S-7 as ESAB has seen fit to stop producing the .023 wire in S-7. The higher heat settings show what I've been saying on many forums, don't be scared of turning up the heat. Set your machine for full penetration welds first and foremost, then fine tune from there. Even though we have higher heat, the weld size and ultimate heat seen by the panel is controlled by length of time of trigger pull. But note that the higher heats MAY also give you a flatter weld, which should equate to less grinding needed to clean up the welds. Downside is that imperfect (gaps) butt joints may also result in blowing holes at these higher settings. All machines are different, even among the same model. My 211 may have different quirks that someone else's doesn't. Practice using weld coupons to dial in your machine before risking the good sheet metal on your project.
 
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