First time door skinning!

mitch_04

Learnin'
I am doing my first door skin on a '78 Trans Am. I have the old one off and the door is getting sandblasted. In the meantime, I have a few questions.

1. What do you use for sealing the new skin? Seam sealer or...?

2. Do you apply it before you fold the skin over?

3. What do you use for the "foam" that is spotted between the brace and outer skin?

My friend recently bought a auto body tool company that makes door skin folding tools. He is giving me one free and wants to come by to see how it's used and if there is any improvements that could be made. Supposedly it takes the same amount of time, but has a nicer finish than hammered edges. His words were "...be honest, it's not my design!". In the tools instructions, it mentions using a caulk when folding the skin over to help keep the rattle sounds down when the door is shut. Would like to know what others do on their skins.
 
mitch_04;31349 said:
I am doing my first door skin on a '78 Trans Am. I have the old one off and the door is getting sandblasted. In the meantime, I have a few questions.

1. What do you use for sealing the new skin? Seam sealer or...?

2. Do you apply it before you fold the skin over?

3. What do you use for the "foam" that is spotted between the brace and outer skin?

My friend recently bought a auto body tool company that makes door skin folding tools. He is giving me one free and wants to come by to see how it's used and if there is any improvements that could be made. Supposedly it takes the same amount of time, but has a nicer finish than hammered edges. His words were "...be honest, it's not my design!". In the tools instructions, it mentions using a caulk when folding the skin over to help keep the rattle sounds down when the door is shut. Would like to know what others do on their skins.

1.http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pliogrip-panel-bonding-p-26422.aspx
2.before, around all edges and be sure to cover bare metal. put atleast 80 grit scratches in areas that bond together
3. at our shop we use betaseal urethane or flexible foam i.e. http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pliogrip-panel-bonding-p-26422.aspx
hope that helps. done regularly in a our production shop.
 
Just to make sure I have this right, you use the same panel adhesive for the folds as you use between the brace and outer skin? Or did you accidentally post the same link?
 
You need foam. There are many kinds, but we use SEM 39357.

Is is important to repair all edges of the door to the correct contour before removing the old skin. Make sure that you have enough time to apply the adhesive around the edges, hem the flange, and test fit the door all within the work time of the material. That heavy door can easily take a twist or other misalignment that will be very difficult to correct once the adhesive cures. I like adhesives with a long work time, which allows careful alignment of the door frame and skin. At that point it's best to leave it hung on the vehicle in the aligned position overnight to fully cure.
 
crashtech;31352 said:
You need foam. There are many kinds, but we use SEM 39357.

Is is important to repair all edges of the door to the correct contour before removing the old skin. Make sure that you have enough time to apply the adhesive around the edges, hem the flange, and test fit the door all within the work time of the material. That heavy door can easily take a twist or other misalignment that will be very difficult to correct once the adhesive cures. I like adhesives with a long work time, which allows careful alignment of the door frame and skin. At that point it's best to leave it hung on the vehicle in the aligned position overnight to fully cure.

Sorry that was a mistake crash is RIGHT on the FOAM!! like he explained exactly. also make sure when you start go in one direction all the way around making complete passes of the hemmed area. starting and stopping in different areas may cause misalignment issues as well. When your all said and done save yourself the hassle later and wipe off any excess adhesive with a clean rag and lacquer thinner(much easier than sandin it off later).
 
I wouldn't use doorskin adhesive on that door design, with the way those F bodies flex them long ass heavy doors will eventually have an adhesive fracture and that'll provide a point for corrosion to start. I'd weld them, after they've been fitted and adjusted for contour, then soak the seams down with epoxy primer.
 
X2 on that way to. My boss always talks about the glory days doing that on his late 60s gm muscle. What would you recommend to get epoxy inside the shell to prevent corrosion? Any takes combo welding with weld through adhesive?
 
One more question, is that foam the same as NVH foam? The reason I ask is that I can get 3M products through my shop and I found a NVH foam by them.
 
I think so. A part number would confirm it.

I don't often disagree with Bob, but as someone who has tried to change the skin alignment of a door once the adhesive has cured, I can attest to its strength and tenacity. I think if the surfaces to be bonded are well prepared, that skin won't crack away from the frame except with tools.
 
crashtech;31375 said:
I think so. A part number would confirm it.

I don't often disagree with Bob, but as someone who has tried to change the skin alignment of a door once the adhesive has cured, I can attest to its strength and tenacity. I think if the surfaces to be bonded are well prepared, that skin won't crack away from the frame except with tools.

I agree the adhesive should do the job but I've peeled back enough factory skins that were bonded and failing to know there are failures. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. For collision work I'd glue them on all day long-just makes sense both in speed and cleanliness-to grind, no burn back. For the older cars I like to take my time and tune in the contour after the hem is folded and once dialed in then I weld, I add material to the edges if needed or adjust the fold line. My experiences welding when there's adhesive in the seam sure made for some major weld contamination. Once all the metal work/welding is done I tape up the seam and flood it from the inside with epoxy primer-enough to fill the seam, I repeat and rotate the door so it stands or hangs edge down for both vertical seams and the bottom-it takes one day for the bottom seam, one day for the rear seam, one day for the front seam. When I pull the masking tape off it's obvious the primer has worked it's way around the fold and coated it well. JMO
 
Man, you guys are perfectionists! I love the knowledge that's on this forum.

Anyways, the door shell has some rust repair that needs to be done along one corner before the skin goes on. Hopefully everything will go alright. I'll pick up some foam and panel adhesive as well, then I guess I'll try it all out and see what works best for me.
 
Some pictures of what I'm working with. It has been sandblasted and primed, these are prior to priming. I don't know how soon I'll be able to fix the damage, so I figured I'd get some epoxy on it now and recoat when the door is together.



 
If I was doing that job I would do all of your rust repair/fab on the door frame,then hang the frame on the car and fit the skin.Once you have it fitting the way you want make a couple of marks on the frame to aid you in alinging the skin.I would then epoxy the door frame and the inside of the skin and let it cure before I put it together and fold over the hem flange.If you do decide to use adhessive there are a couple of ways to do it so you will not have any failures and your corrosion protection will remain intact.
 
Make sure to rebuild or replace your hinges, the bushing and pin fit needs to be tight or the body flex will wear them out fast. I modify the hinges on these and weld in a piece of steel tubing that's placed between the two bushings, I put a 1/8" hole or sometimes a grease fitting in the tube that's accessible when the door is opened-this way a person can pump grease into the tube and it pushes through the bushings. Keeps abrasives out, the bushings lubed, and the pins won't rust. The bushings and pins need to fit snug for them to last. These cars had hinge problems, dropping door since new. Even with welded in subframe connectors installed I've jacked these cars under one torque box area and found the door won't open or close because of body flex, T-top cars are the worst.
 
1.http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pliogrip-panel-bonding-p-26422.aspx
2.before, around all edges and be sure to cover bare metal. put atleast 80 grit scratches in areas that bond together
3. at our shop we use betaseal urethane or flexible foam i.e. http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/pliogrip-panel-bonding-p-26422.aspx
hope that helps. done regularly in a our production shop.
Thank you, an excellent shop to get all the parts online. As for me, I can also recommend https://autoexpertguides.com/ - the website where you can find not only the skin for your car doors, but also all the car cleaning liquids.
 
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