Fixing Original vs. Replacing Aftermarket

crashtech

crashtech

Combo Man & Mod
I've been having a difficult time convincing some of my customers that it's worth the time to fix an original part versus replacing it with an aftermarket one. On the '68 Camaro I am doing, the right fender for example took about 16 hours to get to the point where it could be considered ready for a final block and paint. I know a lot of guys now that just throw away all the original sheetmetal for these cars and change it out for Taiwan stuff. The aftermarket cowl hood we got for this '68 is not really too bad, and it makes me wonder if I just need to stop insisting on fixing the OEM stuff, since most of it is pretty dang rough. I have to wonder if the hood is of more refined quality because they sell a lot more of them. I am scared to try aftermarket fenders for these musclecars!

On the '70 GTO I am doing, the customer bought an OE fender from a guy who took both fenders off, replaced them with Dynacorn Taiwan units, then finished the car and supposedly sent it to B-J and sold it for a pretty good price. The fender he took off is not really bad at all, it has a pretty big dent but zero rust. I considered it very fixable because nobody has tried to fix it, that is what messes parts up the most, guys drilling holes, pounding and grinding on these poor parts. But even with this pretty decent part, it is likely I will spend close to two days on it as well, between all the metalwork and extra epoxy primer sessions, and poly putty.

Has the quality of aftermarket parts really progressed to the point where they are no longer considered a detriment to the value of the vehicle?
 
First off, let me say that I am no professional, and do not do this for a living. That being said, I just replaced both fenders on my '85 F-150 (rust) with two Taiwanese made aftermarket fenders , and I can honestly say that the lines just don't match up nearly as good as the oem ones did. As far as thickness, they seem a little thinner, but I can't tell how much. I guess I'll just have to fudge everything and hope most people won't notice. After all, I do want the truck to look nice, but I am still going to use it as a truck. I would have repaired the original ones, but at $99 each, it was cheaper to replace them.
 
I guess my question is more specifically aimed at musclecars like the Camaro that have everything reproduced for them, and would presumably have people demanding a higher quality level for their parts.
 
If it can be fixed in a reasonable timeframe i say fix it. I did a 69 GTO with aftermarket. After cutting and welding
to get it to fit properly I could have fixed the origional ones. Its a toss up. I guess it all depends on the quality
of the finished product you desire.
 
I only mess with the tri-5 chevys which also have a lot of parts availability. But I think it depends on the level of perfection a person is looking for. I rejected the reproduced fenders and 1/4s both. I haven't checked the doors yet, but have heard some complaints. I'm not sure the willingness to pay for factory quality is there yet, although some parts may achieve that. I'm also a little anal about the factory nubs and shapes of the flanges, that show it to be an original part.
 
I have used both and on a street car that will see dings and general road rash redoing originals is a time waster unless the customer wants to spend the $.
Now if its a show car or quality resto then stay with factory is the only way to go.
On everything i've seen (aftermarket) the body lines, flanges , and wheel openings are always off to a degree on the repops. Also they are always thinner. The more discerning the eye the more its noticed.
I think the quality on the metal hoods has improved over the years in the aftermarket though
 
The problem really is that the decision has to made and then the consequences must be borne, usually by me. If a big part like a fender is not acceptable, it's costly to ship it back. And if we decide to redo the OE stuff, once it is stripped and epoxy primed there is a significant amount of time into it before repairs even start. I am under pressure to do the repairs quicker, with more filler and high build products like poly primer, because it's pretty hard to justify charging $6-700 to get a fender ready for paint. I do some of it "off the clock."
 
One thing to consider is the fit of the original. People see these cars at shows and think the panels fit like a glove when they were new. NOT THE CASE AT ALL! Those Camaros fit together terrible to begin with. There is a chance that the repro fenders may actually fit as good or better than the original did. Often it isn't a matter of making them fit like original, but more like fitting better than new. If you checked the original factory service manuals for those cars you would be amazed at how much tollerance was allowed on those cars.

A few years ago I was working on a 67 Mustang. The driver's door was in real poor condition with the bottom rusted away. Those doors have a texture finish in the metal. Everyone claimed that repo doors for that vehicle didn't fit at all. The door that I got bolted right on and lined right up, actually better than the original did.

Aaron
 
I have done it both ways when restoring cars. Personally I think the "fit" is not the issue most of the time for as Aaron points out the OEM stuff is all over the map.
My experience with Goodmark panels has been that they are of mediocre quality hence the price. The quarter skins for my R/T didn't even match each other as the side marker lights were off by almost 2" one quarter to the other. I opted to leave the original marker light holes in place and seam around them. Also the body lines on the quarters weren't consistent and one side required a bunch of time and effort to get it correct.
Recently I purchased a center floor support brace from AMD and it was a perfect fit and seemed to be of much higher quality however it was also pricey.
My current thoughts on this issue are to always retain as much of the OEM panels as is possible and if you have to buy a repop spend the money to get a quality one.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. My main concern is doing right by the customer, I like to make sure I am making good use of their money. I know the car will be nice with the original fenders, but since I have heard these stories about high-end builders purposely using aftermarket parts, it had me second-guessing my decision.
 
The 68 Camaro I am doing right now came to me with all a/m parts on the front and a replacement driver's door. The front parts fit together pretty good. The fender to door match on the right side was actually better than the left, but still not that good. Actually didn't look that bad until I painted it the same Yellow used on the 2010 Camaro. The light color magnified the appearance of the gaps. I actually went to a cruise in last night just to look at some of the Camaros there. They all look like crap the way they fit together. One of them had a real high dollar custom paint job on it, but there was no attention to the fit of the panels what so ever.

The onwer of the car I have here did not want the door and fender edges worked to get them even. He wanted the car to have the more original look. It just depends on what the customer wants and is willing to pay for.

Aaron
 
ADTKART said:
The 68 Camaro I am doing right now came to me with all a/m parts on the front and a replacement driver's door. The front parts fit together pretty good. The fender to door match on the right side was actually better than the left, but still not that good. Actually didn't look that bad until I painted it the same Yellow used on the 2010 Camaro. The light color magnified the appearance of the gaps. I actually went to a cruise in last night just to look at some of the Camaros there. They all look like crap the way they fit together. One of them had a real high dollar custom paint job on it, but there was no attention to the fit of the panels what so ever.

The onwer of the car I have here did not want the door and fender edges worked to get them even. He wanted the car to have the more original look. It just depends on what the customer wants and is willing to pay for.

Aaron
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I have used both and usually regret using the aftermarket junk. Case in point was a 68 c10 that had rust in unusual places like the seam between the inner and outer fender sections. Hood was rusted between the inner and outer sections as well, and doors inner panels were pretty bad, too. Replaced all of it with aftermarket figuring it would be cheaper for the customer. Didn't turn out to be after fighting every single part(except the door handles!) for hours and sometimes days. One of the doors I literally had to drill out the window frame spot welds and lower it 1/4" so it would fit in the hole. Hood was nice and straight until it was mounted, then the hinges pushed on the hood brace and put 2 giant high spots in it when closed. This one I worked on for 2 1/2 days to get it ready for primer. I've had some parts fit decent, but none that didn't need "adjustment" Haven't found any particular brand to be better in general, seems to depend on the vehicle. I just try to fix what I can with quality, replace what I can't fix without excessive filler, and live with it!
 
With the exception of some 72 Nova floor panels I have very little experience in this area. I just happened to be looking at the panel fit on the car Saturday. This is a little old lady one owner 64,000 mile original so I know it led a charmed life. The factory panel fit is horrible. I know it's a Nova, but wow is it bad. If these aftermarket companies have used OEM pieces to design their dies then that poor factory fit will just continue.

The floor panels I referenced were from AMD and I am quite please with their fit and thickness. As previously stated it is suspected that many of the aftermarket panels come from the same manufacturer so I was just shopping for a good value. I did want a good fit because I'm fairly meticulous so I couldn't make up my mind. In the end I went with AMD because Mark Worman from Graveyard uses AMD components. He is one fussy SOB. If it's good enough for him it's good enough for me. More expensive, but I'm pleased.
 
I did a major front end crash on a 67 that I had no choice but to replace everything and had one hell of a time getting them to fit. They came from Ecklers and had the parts and return shipping not been so dam much I would have stacked everything on the single pallet they came in on and sent them back faster then they were shipped. All the sheet metal was a complete disaster and required major work to get things to fit, from the hinge mounts on the fenders being too low to the skin of the hood being welded too low on the hoods frame with just barely enough lip left after I unwelded the hoods skin to lift it into the correct spot to get it to be level with the top of the fenders.
 
I read an article recently that GM was reproing some old parts for their “classics”. That may be a consideration. But usually, foreign made AM parts are junk.
 
Not professional at this in any regard, but the front fenders we got for the 67 Camaro were bad. We ended up having to slice the support by the door and redo the bend so it lined up to the doors without filling them with bondo. Unfortunately the four we got with the cars, two were fiberglass and all cracked and the others were not even worth sending. The door lined up to the quarter that we skinned, but not the fender side. We figured the doors were off and ordered new doors and they were about the same and did not match. I think the biggest problem you have with doing these for customers and not yourself, is they think buying a new one means bolt it on and paint it when there are hours of fitting you are still dealing with, whether you go to the same manufacturer or mix and match. Thats where I see most of the trouble being not getting to all the spots the rust has started or will start between. I agree, for the most part they are junk, but considering what you are replacing they are usually better.

I really believe there is just one or two plants stamping these things out. AMD gets first look and picks the ones they want to sell, then Goodmark, Classic, then it goes down the line, so the cheaper deal you get are parts that have been picked thru and passed on. Most probably wrong, but some boxes you get have everyones name on it, from Goodmark to Golden Eagle. Just does not make sense to have so many places stamping and ecoating this stuff.

Now the Chevelle, they have patches for the bottom door side of the fenders, but not the grill side where they all rust at the bend, so every thing I tried to reuse would take hundreds of hours. So far all the parts we are keeping are part of the package tray, top cowl and roof support system, other than the a pillars which we are patching from reproduction parts, not replacing the entire part. Trying to save doors and trunk lid, but just have not gotten there yet. The quarters are ok, the roof panel was long at the gutters. The Shermer filler panel between the wings at the rear window on the 66 is 3" too long, but they specify SS so I am not sure if the SS was 3" wider of if it was a bad part.

So far its all good heavy stuff, not like the reproduction fender for the 2003 Monte Carlo, but it was all built better back then and for the most parts, its probably the same tooling GM sold off.
 
There some folks in the US who are stamping out really good panels for floors and body patches. So it can be done. Exterior sheet metal is a bit trickier for proper fit, and staying competitive. By making them slightly off the overseas guys don’t have licensing to worry about, I guess.
 
anotheridiot said:
Not professional at this in any regard, but the front fenders we got for the 67 Camaro were bad. We ended up having to slice the support by the door and redo the bend so it lined up to the doors without filling them with bondo. Unfortunately the four we got with the cars, two were fiberglass and all cracked and the others were not even worth sending. The door lined up to the quarter that we skinned, but not the fender side. We figured the doors were off and ordered new doors and they were about the same and did not match. I think the biggest problem you have with doing these for customers and not yourself, is they think buying a new one means bolt it on and paint it when there are hours of fitting you are still dealing with, whether you go to the same manufacturer or mix and match. Thats where I see most of the trouble being not getting to all the spots the rust has started or will start between. I agree, for the most part they are junk, but considering what you are replacing they are usually better.

I really believe there is just one or two plants stamping these things out. AMD gets first look and picks the ones they want to sell, then Goodmark, Classic, then it goes down the line, so the cheaper deal you get are parts that have been picked thru and passed on. Most probably wrong, but some boxes you get have everyones name on it, from Goodmark to Golden Eagle. Just does not make sense to have so many places stamping and ecoating this stuff.

Now the Chevelle, they have patches for the bottom door side of the fenders, but not the grill side where they all rust at the bend, so every thing I tried to reuse would take hundreds of hours. So far all the parts we are keeping are part of the package tray, top cowl and roof support system, other than the a pillars which we are patching from reproduction parts, not replacing the entire part. Trying to save doors and trunk lid, but just have not gotten there yet. The quarters are ok, the roof panel was long at the gutters. The Shermer filler panel between the wings at the rear window on the 66 is 3" too long, but they specify SS so I am not sure if the SS was 3" wider of if it was a bad part.

So far its all good heavy stuff, not like the reproduction fender for the 2003 Monte Carlo, but it was all built better back then and for the most parts, its probably the same tooling GM sold off.
Click to expand...

I contacted AMD about whether they actually produce parts or not. Here is their reply:

"We do manufacture a good chunk of our parts. Anything you see on the website with the red/white/blue AMD logo is our own, in house part that we own the tooling on. Anything that has a letter in front of the part number and/or has an “X-parts” logo on the website is not made by us, they’re sourced from other companies.

"Our “AMD” branded parts are produced in Taiwan, but we do all of our development work and test fitting here in Georgia."
 
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