Gold Leafing

Chuck Nukem

Promoted Users
First post! I can't believe it took me this long find my way on to this forum. There is so much experience and knowledge here I can't believe it.

I have been using SPI as projects come and go over the last few years. I am currently working on a Lotus Europa that is a John Player Special edition. The factory used vinyl gold tape as the pinstripe. I am planning to do one better and go with real gold leaf. Here is a finished product.
lotus-jps.jpg


I searched and found a few threads about gold leafing, but I had a few questions pertaining to this application. Right now the car is in Slicksand poly primer. I will block it to 600 or so, shoot reduced SPI black epoxy as a sealer, then shoot 2 coats of SPI black around 4-6 hours later in the same day. The next day I will shoot 3 coats of universal clear. As of right now I am planning to sand this coat of clear with 800, tape off the car, apply size, and use the 1/4" 23k gold leaf pin stripe I got from Letterhead sign supply. I have read on the forum about applying adhesion promoter to the gold. Would you tape the entire car off and only apply it to the pin stripes, or is it OK to apply adhesion promoter between layers of clear? Is it even necessary to sand the entire car before applying the gold leaf? is there a window on doing tape work to clear like there is with basecoat? Thanks in advance!

Just for reference here is where I am at.
20200814_121300_001.jpg

Here was the booth when I first put it up. Need to replastic again...
20190731_174724 (1).jpg
 
hmm only thing i am confused about is this 1/4 pinstripe leaf. typically leaf comes in sheets. usually 3" squares and is either loose or patent leaf which is sort of lightly stuck to a rice paper. when you say 1/4" pinstripe leaf i am thinking is self adhesive pinstripe. it is real gold but sandwiched with vinyl. its just a peel and stick. if it is real loose gold leaf that you need to put size down then yes you should mist a light coat of adpro over the leaf before clear. adpro is clear so you dont need to mask.
 
Jim,

Thanks for the response. Here is the product I purchased. It is real leaf, just in a roll instead of a sheet. https://letterheadsignsupply.com/Gold-Leaf/Gold-Leaf-Rolls

My plan was to use fineline tape for the borders, apply the size with a brush, apply gold, then peel the tape off. Does that sounds OK to you? From the sounds of it I can apply the adpro after removing tape, and then go to clear correct?

Here are some results I got messing around on a test sheet of base/clear to test edge integrity and timing on the size.
20200715_172230.jpg
 
yes you can spray the adpro after you unmask. if your using say 1/2" fineline then you can also put the adpro in an airbrush or a small touchup gun with fan off and apply before you unmask the leaf as well.
 
remember the less adpro the better. one piss thin coat is all that is needed. also, be sure to let that leaf and size harden for a couple days before you clear

If I wait a few days do I need to wipe the panel down with wax and grease before shooting that 2nd clear or just tack it?

Would you say that 800 grit is good enough for sanding that first round of clear before gold leaf or would you go finer? Do I need to use intercoat?
 
i would wipe it if you think its going to have contaminants on it. DO NOT wipe the leaf though. wax and grease will wipe it right off. remember size is like oil base paint. w&g and mineral spirits is a thinner for oil base.

600-800 is good. no finer. i am typically 600 or 400 with a da with a soft pad on it. no intercoat
 
I have a slightly different approach to your process.
I think it may be a challenge to apply the patent gold stripe exactly between the tapes. You risk going slightly off and ending up with missed thin areas within the stripe and it may produce a ragged edge. Even if you make the size wider it may be tough to get it on right. Once the gold touches the size there is no lifting off and repositioning it.
If I were doing it I think I would put down a wider gold (gilded) stripe, let the size and gold dry well (it is oil base like Jim mentioned). 2. Apply 1 or 2 coats of top coat clear to the gold, let that dry well. 3. Create the stripe with 1/4" blue fine line tape in the center of the gold. 4. Then use an air brush or detail gun and spray the background color to knock out the extra gold. Put some extra clear over the stripes on your first round of clear. Block wet sand the stripe to knock down the edges prior to re-clearing the final overall coat. Results should be a sharp consistent gold line and in the clear with no edges. Definitely test the process.
Note with real gold leaf on a vehicle use quick size and don't apply more than you have time to apply the leaf before it completely dries and you loose the tack. You also don't want to apply the gold too soon of you will drown it, look dull.
I never used ad-pro on gold leaf but I don't see were it would hurt anything.

I used to do gold leaf lettering on vehicles by hand with brushes, quite a few fire trucks. That work went away with the plotter cut gold leaf vinyl. It looks alright but it has no soul.
 
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Thank you for the advice Ernie. The stripes are going to be approx 3/16" and I bought a 1/4" wide leaf roll. I have done a few test cards on the size and I definitely found out about drowning it...I had the best luck applying leaf about 45-60 minutes after applying size. It just squeaked when I dragged my knuckles across it. I am using Dux quick dry size. I tried using a makeup brush to feather the edges in to the tape and it seemed to work OK.

You do make a good point about coming back with base coat and fineline tape to make a very sharp edge... Do I need to do anything special beyond sanding to apply base/clear directly over this clear?
 
One thing to note, metalmans process is great if your edges dont come out crisp but if you do it that way be absolutely sure you put adoro on the leaf before you clear it otherwise when you put fineline over and you pull that off you will end up pulling the clear right off the leaf.
 
your edges dont come out crisp but if you do it that way be absolutely sure you put adoro on the leaf before you clear it otherwise when you put fineline over and you pull that off you will end up pulling the clear right off the leaf.

Agreed. It's nice to know I have a recourse if things don't come out perfect off the tape. I will invest in a detail gun for the adpro. I do have a small container of SPI adpro.
 
Guys I need a little advice. I seem to be having an allergic reaction to polyester primer. I made a rookie mistake a month or two ago and sprayed poly primer in my garage with the bay door open. The door to the house has a gasket seal, but the smell somehow got in to the house pretty strongly that evening and the bigger mistake is that I was wearing the 2097 3m "nuisance vapor" mask instead of a true organic vapor. Truly stupid but I just didn't realize how bad this stuff was.

Ever since then I have had a feeling of tightness in my chest and it seems to be stronger if I am near bondo (using rage gold) dust or espcially poly primer fumes. I am constantly having to clear my throat, but nothing comes out. I always wear the pink respirator when I sand (half face, thinking it might be wise to switch to full face even for sanding) Ever since the incident I have been spraying outside in my plastic booth which has an air handler fan to extract fumes and I use organic cartridges. I am close to finishing but I am questioning whether it is foolish to push forward when my body is definitely not feeling 100%. No project is worth long term health problems...

Has anyone out there experienced similar symptoms? How long does this kind of thing usually linger? I never had issues like this when I did my 66 pickup or the BMW. This is my first time using poly primer and I have probably sprayed about 5-6 gallons so far. Should I lay off for a month or so? I am afraid if I wait too long it will be next spring before I can paint the thing and it is so damn close...
 
while none of the chemicals we use in autobody are any good for you, i can think of a ton that are worse than poly primer. being in the boat industry for years i can tell you that i see prob 500 guys working with polyesters all day every day without any kind of reaction. some have respirators, some just dust masks. everyones body is different though. you may be very sensitive to something that is in it. mekp, styrene, etc
 
I would advise consulting a Doctor. It sounds like a reaction to what you are using. Poly primer is much lower on the danger scale than urethane products which contain isocyanates, but poly does have MEK (methyl ethyl ketones) which in high concentration could have a similar reaction.

Found this on a MSDS concerning MEK " Breathing Methyl Ethyl Ketone can irritate the nose and throat causing coughing and wheezing"

First thing is go to a Doctor and get checked out. It could be an underlying issue aggravated by using these chemicals. Once you return to work, ventilate your area and minimally, wear a paint respirator like 3M 7192. That would be the minimal amount of protection. If you are having these issues you should look into using a supplied air respirator for all your painting and priming. Wearing a dust mask is not protection and nuisance style dust masks don't protect against anything.

But go to a Doctor first, please.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I just got off the phone with the doc and I am going to stop until this goes away.

I have laid up many gallons of poly fiberglass resin and the stuff has never really bothered me in the past. Time will tell I suppose.
 
Chris,

Can your recommend a good fresh air supply system? I went in to my local paint store and asked about one a few weeks ago when I noticed these issues weren't going away. They didn't have any information available and seemed like they didn't really care to sell one. They sold me the 3m full face instead.
 
Chuck, looking at your "booth" plastic tarps, if black color's from overspray fog, you're killing yourself.
Never ever be in a room with that fog, never ever spray without air moving in/out.
Dust sands out. Lungs are forever. Also get covid tested.

Spraying environment needs to be stressed. Been there done that survived but i'm old enough to know right from wrong now.
 
Chuck, looking at your "booth" plastic tarps, if black color's from overspray fog, you're killing yourself.
Never ever be in a room with that fog, never ever spray without air moving in/out.
Dust sands out. Lungs are forever. Also get covid tested.

Spraying environment needs to be stressed. Been there done that survived but i'm old enough to know right from wrong now.


The picture I attached of the booth was before I had shot anything in it I believe those are just shadows.

The first car I painted was in a garage with 2 HVAC fans being used to exhaust fumes. It seemed to work OK. When I run the single fan in this booth it pulls enough of a vacuum that the plastic pulls up from the floor and the walls come in a bit. It does move air, but perhaps not enough.
 
Could be covid. Im around it 8hrs a day at work. Its a real thing. Unlikely but possible. When i painted my car i had a beard and had a sore throat for a week. I had to ditch the beard, health more important. Especially lungs sir.
 
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