Matrix MPB 9000 and universal clears

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hobbesnmina2001

Promoted Users
I repainted my Z06 as follows. The car was a rebuild and it had a bad paint job when I got it. Originally Torch Red was repaired, repainted base coat clear coat in Millennium Yellow with the top painted black. The clear was coming off so I took all the paint off using some walnut shell blasting and some sanding. From reading some on this site it says never use etching anything and I used Clausen All U Need exclusively. For top coat I used Matrix MPB 9000 mixing 50% with Matrix MS52 universal clear coat as I was trying to get as true black as possible.
What’s wrong with self etching primer? I see self etching bondo these days as well?
My question is SPI 4000 being a universal clear compatible with Matrix MPB which is listed as DMD compatible?
Aren’t most urethane clears universal?
On my car on the advice of Clausen distributor I avoided solvents and used Ivory pure soap and hot water to clean and didn’t have fish eye issues.
What is meant when it says “universal clear”?
Sorry if it’s dumb questions but I like to learn as much as possible.
 

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SPI "Universal" is the trade name for their show quality clear. The Production Clear is a good quality all around 4-1 clear. The Euro Clear is a higher solid clear that gets mixed 4-1-1, The Universal Clear is also high solid that gets mixed 1-1 and is my favorite for looks but it stay open (wet) longer so dust and bugs can be more of a problem if your spraying area is like mine, which is a basic garage with a attic fan for exhaust. I use the Production clear with medium hardener for most everything. It looks nice and gets me "out of dust" the fastest, so for my basic used car lot paint jobs it's more then enough. When painting something that really matters to me, I use the Universal. Check out the SPI web site tech sheets, they're very clear and realistic about the plus and minuses on all their products for their different uses.
 
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RenewAP said:
SPI "Universal" is the trade name for their show quality clear. The Production Clear is a good quality all around 4-1 clear. The Euro Clear is a higher solid clear that gets mixed 4-1-1, The Universal Clear is also high solid that gets mixed 1-1 and is my favorite for looks but it stay open (wet) longer so dust and bugs can be more of a problem if you spraying area is like mine, which is a basic garage with a attic fan for exhaust. I use the Production clear with medium hardener for most everything. It looks nice and gets me "out of dust" the fastest, so for my basic used car lot paint jobs it's more then enough. When painting something that really matters to me, I use the Universal. Check out the SPI web site tech sheets, there very clear and realistic about the plus and minuses on all their products for their different uses.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input, it’s interesting because I started downloading the tech sheets on some of the clears. I haven’t gotten to the production clear yet and I thought it must be for assembly lines type production. After your description I’ll be sure to check them all out. I don’t have a “booth”, it’s more of a paint room with a couple of fans to pull out the fumes without creating a negative atmosphere to pull in dust.

Thanks again for the information
 
Around here we love epoxy, specifically SPI Epoxy. Self etch in the context of comparing it to epoxy is why it gets a bad rap. It's better than nothing. Ideally though you would have epoxy as your base and then apply a poly primer (if that's what you are using) over the epoxy. Superior adhesion, corrosion protection, and chip resistance are the reasons why.
As for clears, most any clear can go over any base or SS. Universal is called that because it was originally marketed as a do it all clear, i.e., for restoration and collision. It is one of the best clears on the market, it is a true polyurethane clear.
 
Ok, I understand what you guys are saying and not to argumentative since there’s a reason Baskin Robins has 67 flavors!
A friend of mine who was an excellent painter and body man as well as successful business owner told me you need to find a good system that can give you repeatable performance and outcome. Forget about name brands, find a system that works for you and stick with it. Keep the materials you need to a minimum so you stay using fresh products and have less variability in results. While there's truth to the grip of epoxy there’s also the fact that epoxy is not a good filling primer and enter high build poly primers. On perfect mounded surface it’s great but in less than perfect panels one ends up sanding through not just the high build poly but through the epoxy to the metal. So now some people spot in epoxy or skip the spot. I’ve asked a number of guys that question and got those responses.
To simplify some people people skip the extra cost of epoxy except for when there’s a variety of substrates and they use epoxy as a sealer to keep swelling and rings from coming through. Lay high build on thick and try to stay above the epoxy.
I came from the old school of lacquer primer and lacquer or synthetic enamel OEMs having gone to school in early 70s.
We had phosphoric acid and zinc but self etching primers where like a leap for mankind.
I remember my college teacher warning us about how an American LaFrance production painter ended up in the hospital due to insufficient paint mask quality. I only worked in a couple of shops in the early 70s until I went to the plants that paid better wages and benefits with a lot less layoffs.
I still worked on cars on the side some over the years at home. It seemed like every few years I would have to learn a new system usually from paint suppliers and or friends. Try this and try that and that’s why a few years ago a friend from a shop that builds award winning high end cars told me about Clausen All You Need. I’m not here to sell anyone, I’m here to learn and All U Need is not cheap primer, my friend paints 6 figure cars.
They use to use the different primers and steps and often go through the headaches. When they discovered All U Need the headaches went away. The distributor is an old body and paint guy very knowledgeable and taught me about not using solvents for prep, he learned that from the Nissan plant at Nashville.
Less steps and materials lead to less problems.
I welcome all kinds of input to learn from.
 
Why am I here to learn if what I previously mentioned has worked you might ask? Well since I don’t paint all the time things happen and I’m not aware. The distributor I used for Matrix has gone out of business and he told me that since Sherwin Williams bought Matrix they put them under Valspar and it’s not the same paint in the Matrix containers. I don’t know if it’s true but I heard a similar comment on a YouTube video.
I heard similar about Martin Senour also owned by Sherwin Williams. I’ve also heard complaints about PPG leaving their customers behind … so here I am wondering if I can find a system I can use that hopefully won’t change with the wind.
On my Z06 I blended the Matrix MPB 9000 50-50% with Matrix MS 52 clear and treated it as single stage with the MS 52 hardener. After 3 coats I put 2 coats of clear on top and let dry 24 hours before wet sanding it. After that I put another two coats of clear , wet sanded and polished it. Under it I used between 4-5 gallons of All U Need primer sanded mostly with foam different shape blocks to get the contours.
Question are SPI clears compatible for blending as well as topping over different manufacturers bases?
 
Hi Barry, thanks for your reply. I’m liking what I’ve been finding and seeing in your system.
I love the product is made in America and there’s enough supporting products one can stay within the system other than particular OEM colors.
I love that you guys aren’t that far from me (Lewisburg Tn 37091) about 4 1/2 hours or so. In SPI shipping chart it appears I’m close enough that shipping time is very reasonable.
I’m impressed that your product tech sheets are clear, concise and informative. It’s amazing how hard it is sometimes to get product information that should be easily accessible these days.
I love that you guys have this forum as a way to ask questions and get answers.
I love the fact that you being a family business there’s a chance you will stay away from the corporate world of mergers and policies that screw up the original philosophy that built the reputation. I can’t say as a customer how so important that is.
I have a clean slate in my paint stock at this time so I’m going to try the SPI line of products as I go along. I’m not a regular shop, I’m a car enthusiast that likes to learn.
I will try the epoxy approach and see how it works for me.
I see that SPI has adhesion promoter and a mid coat clear? Is that to soften the previous clear and makes it easier to blend in the color coat into the previous clear when spotting in?

Thanks
 
A quality epoxy like SPI's is far far superior to anything else out there in terms of adhesion and corrosion protection. Many of us use it exclusively on some jobs. You can also build with SPI epoxy. But irregardless having epoxy as your base should be considered mandatory if you want something to last and perform. Especially using it under filler. Makes a huge difference. Filler over bare metal is a weak link which epoxy solves. OEM's for over two decades have required any filler over epoxy as well.
It's the best thing to use to make any job last.
 
Thanks Chris for the information, but I’m not sure it’s always a requirement to use epoxy primer since it’s not the only DTM primer substrate out there.
The difference is important since there’s a number of primers that are DTM, provide good adhesion and seal out moisture even though they are not technically epoxy.
Based on the first article epoxy appears to be the best product for direct to metal for Toyota and zinc protected metal but as the 2nd article shows epoxy isn’t the only product that can satisfy the DTM , provided adhesion and seals bare metal requirements.
I’m not trying to build up or put down any particular product, just trying to make sure we’re all on the same level understanding the task and possible solutions.
I do believe in trying to use good quality products and techniques which isn’t always easy with so much variety of opinions on what’s the best products for particular jobs.


Painting bare metal? I’ve got you covered!

us.ppgrefinish.com us.ppgrefinish.com
 
@hobbesnmina2001 , I thought in your first post you claimed not to be an expert, but in these replies you take the tone of knowing better and/or questioning very established posters. My suggestion is to take some time to settle in before you start making pronouncements about the supposed equivalence of DTM primers to SPI epoxy.
 
The thinking that a DTM urethane primer or an acid etch primer is top-notch is the sign of a 2week training class to be a paint rep for a major.
There is a reason top-notch restorers use epoxy and insurance shops use dtms.

All the points, both positive and negative, have been covered here, so there is no need for me to explain again.
 
Crashtech, all I’m not an expert, I’m an enthusiast. I’m not here to argue about who’s the best, I’m trying to learn. I’m not saying that Matrix is the best either but Matrix was designed by former PPG people supposedly. I’ve never been to Count Customs but they are known in the custom paint industry.
I’ve seen really great paint jobs and lucky to have known some excellent painters. One of them painted one my car and we won best paint at two shows. Actually he painted 4 hot rods and he won best paint with each one at shows. He used PPG.
I’ve painted some over the years but not in that league as a painter or knowledge. I’ve done body work and some frame pulling but not a crash repair specialist. I’ve built or modified a couple of drag cars but not a pro race car builder by any means.
I’m here to learn and do like and respect the information I’m seeing. I’m going to try the SPI products otherwise I wouldn’t be here asking questions.
I do have experience as a petrochemical operator having worked in 2 refineries for 17 years and 25 for Honeywell International. No it doesn’t qualify me as a scientist but I had a lot of training and worked with all kinds of chemicals and processes including isocyanates, hydrofluoric acid and many more. I mention that because in that line of work we are taught to ask questions to find out why. When we don’t it can be dangerous or expensive.
I’m not saying you guys are wrong and you’re entitled to your opinions about products and procedures since this is what you do.
A question is an enquiry for information, it’s not a challenge, it doesn’t matter if it’s followed by more questions because it’s still enquiries for more information.
I’ve been reading the forum and the tech sheets and I like what I’m seeing.

Below is just some one else’s view.

 
Well I'll just jump in with my PERSONAL experiences. I've used a lot of other epoxies out there before I found SPI epoxy. In the 90s we used one of the majors epoxy on chrome stuff that we were painting body color. ( Look at early 90s hot rod magazines for reference ) Then sometime something changed about it and it wasn't what it used to be. So I used other epoxies looking for quality stuff again. Used several different companies stuff but wasn't satisfied. Then found SPI epoxy, started using it and have NEVER looked around again. Man gave me a quart of some other brand with activator, about 150.00 worth, never used it because it didn't meet my high standards. Several months ago going through my paint cans etc , I threw it away. Those of us that have used SPI forever, like myself, we just know. There is no better out there. I don't mean to sound crass but when you've used it a long time like a lot of us on here you just know that you know that you know. Period.
 
actually epoxy is the only dtm that seals out moisture. epoxy is the only primer or paint that is waterproof. acid etch and dtm urethanes are not water/moisture proof at all. they also dont have anywhere near the adhesion level that epoxy does. epoxy will always be the most superior dtm primer no mater what company you use. the other dtm's are there for production in and out type work,
 
Matrix didn't design anything. They stole everything from PPG. PPG didn't protect the formulas. Matrix copied all of it, right down to every drop of toner to produce a paint code formula. Cheap, easy way to produce something. Sound familiar? Matrix is not now similar to original PPG copy. It has been "reformulated" by Sherwin Williams (also prospray, valspar, and house of color) SW base was poor, so they just bought them out. SPI is USA made, not repackaged, and actually proud of their own products.
 
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