New to the site - 1968 Firebird

F

Flamechicken

Hello,
New to the site and wanted to check in with you guys on a problem I’ve run across; I hope I posted this in the right section. Follow along, I hope I explain everything concisely. I have a 1968 Firebird that I’ve had for about 15 years. I had numerous panels replaced about 8 years ago and had it blocked and shot with PPG High Build 2k primer about 5 years ago. Life got in the way, along with a move halfway across the country and it’s been sitting in my garage since about 2015.

I started back on it a couple of weeks ago and started to work on test fitting the front end pieces getting ready for paint, wanting to use all SPI products from here on out (epoxy sealer, medium red base and universal clear.) Prior to it being blocked and shot with the 2k, I had the fender extensions welded to the fenders to eliminate the seam that is usually present. What I found is that the fitment to the lower valance and the parking light housing on the right side needed a little “massaging.” While getting this corner back into shape, the filler (1/8-3/8 thick) that was over the weld seam from the fender/fender extension mating began to crack from the lateral forces that I had to use to basically bend the extension into place.

My idea was to take the lower portion of the fender back down to metal to get rid of the cracks and start from scratch, so that’s where I’m at. I currently have the lower fender extension area down to metal about 3 inches below the front fender body line. Should I prime this portion of the body with epoxy before I redo the filler or can I go straight over the metal/remaining filler and 2k with new filler. Any advice would be welcomed.

I can provide pics if this is not making any sense. Thanks in advance.

Mike
 
Welcome personally I would make sure the bare metal you are talking about is clean and no acid primers or conditioners then 2 coats of epoxy and over night dry then body filler work (SPI epoxy I hope ). That is the best way altho collision shop will do the filler work over bare metal . Lets see some pictures.
 
Thanks for the reply! See the attached pictures.

Mike

8B2A6CE3-3348-46B6-8329-D4482AF0AFA9.jpegD96CD361-FE05-4419-9F5F-2D89953ADD87.jpegC75740B4-32CD-4B8D-9F48-C6D086A5AF54.jpeg
 
Sitting in build primer for 5 years isn't a good thing. If it were mine I would take it all back to metal to ensure a good foundation for your paint job.
Get it to metal, run a DA with 80 grit over it, clean with W&G remover (l like the solvent based) and when dry shoot two coats of epoxy.
 
Sitting in build primer for 5 years isn't a good thing. If it were mine I would take it all back to metal to ensure a good foundation for your paint job.
Get it to metal, run a DA with 80 grit over it, clean with W&G remover (l like the solvent based) and when dry shoot two coats of epoxy.

Thanks for the input. So take it all the way down, past the current filler? Not exactly the news that I want to hear after spending the money that I did to get it to this point!
Why is it bad for the car to be sitting in high build primer for a long time? Thanks again.

Mike
 
Why is it bad for the car to be sitting in high build primer for a long time? Thanks again.
The problem with urethane primer is it has poor corrosion protection. Many shops will shoot acid etch primer over bare metal before 2K, which gives some corrosion protection and something for the 2K to "grab" a hold of, but it is the weak link. Epoxy over properly prepped bare metal is the only advice you will get on this forum, because it is the best foundation for a paint job that is expected to live for a very long time. Anything else will not last as long. Unfortunately, you are in a position to make a decision to start over, or fix what you have and hope it will hold up. As for the spots you are repairing, cleaning those welds by blasting them would be the first step to remove any filler and corrosion that is there. Then 2 coats of epoxy, as Coronet said, wait at least 24 hrs., then apply filler and 2K as needed.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. The car was originally blasted and stripped down in 2006, panels replaced and painted with epoxy primer. The remaining body work was done and sprayed with the 2k high build, so there is a base of epoxy that was never stripped off except on the lower fenders in order to weld the fender extensions.

With that being said, should I still take off the 2k high build, then the filler, then the epoxy to get to bare metal in prep to spray it with epoxy again?

Mike
 
As long as it has been inside out of the weather, you should be good to just repair the lower fenders.

Thanks. It hasn’t seen a drop of rain in 15 years since it’s been off the road. Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions in the coming months!
 
Thanks. It hasn’t seen a drop of rain in 15 years since it’s been off the road. Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions in the coming months!

Just some info on why epoxy is so preferred especially for anything that we want to last for many years. Urethane primers and polyester body filler are porous. They will absorb, or allow to pass through them moisture from the atmosphere. One of the many reasons why using epoxy on bare metal is the preferred way to go. Moisture also forms when the catalytic reaction of body filler (heat is the byproduct) occurs on steel. Especially when that steel is cool to cold, when the metal is under 65 degrees.
That (corrosion protection) and the adhesion aspect of epoxy to metal, and epoxy to filler, are the main reasons for using epoxy as your base.
 
Just some info on why epoxy is so preferred especially for anything that we want to last for many years. Urethane primers and polyester body filler are porous. They will absorb, or allow to pass through them moisture from the atmosphere. One of the many reasons why using epoxy on bare metal is the preferred way to go. Moisture also forms when the catalytic reaction of body filler (heat is the byproduct) occurs on steel. Especially when that steel is cool to cold, when the metal is under 65 degrees.
That (corrosion protection) and the adhesion aspect of epoxy to metal, and epoxy to filler, are the main reasons for using epoxy as your base.

Not in the above words, but pretty much what Crash said a few days ago when I questioned him about putting filler directly over metal. Would never have thought!
 
Thanks for the help and the info on the importance of epoxy. In regards to the rest of the body and after I finish with the fender, should I go ahead and spray the whole car with epoxy as a sealer coat or just as another epoxy coat and then follow that up with a sealer coat? I’m planning to paint the car SPI medium red, so should I use white epoxy as the final sealer instead of grey or black, correct?
 
Are you happy with how the car looks in primer? Light gray, flat primer can hide a lot of waviness and imperfections. Before I decided what to spray next, I would put a heavy coat of dry guide coat on it and start blocking with 150-180. If everything looks good, you could spray 2 coats of unreduced epoxy, or if it needs it, more 2K. Final sanding should be with 400 before sealer, definitely white, since there is no buff color:D
 
Coronet makes a good point about the coverage of the white epoxy. White does not cover as well as the other colors, and you really need a completely white undercoat under the red. One little dark colored spot will take many coats to make it go away.
 
Are you happy with how the car looks in primer? Light gray, flat primer can hide a lot of waviness and imperfections. Before I decided what to spray next, I would put a heavy coat of dry guide coat on it and start blocking with 150-180. If everything looks good, you could spray 2 coats of unreduced epoxy, or if it needs it, more 2K. Final sanding should be with 400 before sealer, definitely white, since there is no buff color:D

I’m happy with were it’s at, but like you said, light grey doesn’t show much. I’ll take your advice and block sand the whole car with a guide coat once I take care of the fender. Can I not go straight to sealer from the blocked 2k if I take it from 180 to 400?
 
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