NO Garage, Rolling "Resto". Should I be PAINTING my car?

R

RunMan

I picked up a Honda Element and it has damaged clear coat on the topside areas (e.g., roof, hood, bumper). I would like to keep the car for a while and plan to respray the whole car. I was quoted about $2600 just to repaint the roof, hood, front bumper, and rear tailgate areas. About $600 a panel. Too much! With regard to experience, I've never sprayed a car before, but I do consider myself to be good with my hands. I understand how tricky it is to get a quality paint job, so I'm reading up as much as I can to see if this is something I should try given my circumstances. This is more of a logistics issue at the moment.

I don't have a garage where I live (or any covered area for that matter). I'm in Hawaii, so there is a decent amount of rain and sun. I do have access to an auto skills center where you can work on your car at an hourly rate. The auto skills center even has paint booths for rent. I would only be able to work on this thing after work and on weekends. Based on the size of the thing, and the time I have to work on it, it might take several weekends to prep for paint. So before the BC/CC gets applied, it would travel between the skills center and home.

I know my car isn't like the complete resto-mods on this forum, but I don't want to take half-measures and have the paint fail over time. Also, if I do decide to paint my Element and it goes well, I would like to paint my S2000 the same way.

My questions are:

1) Is there any concern on keeping the prepped vehicle out in the elements for a short period of time? I know that when I'm sanding down the existing paint (to either scuff the clearcoat or remove it) if I go down to bare metal, I would need to apply SPI epoxy primer on those specific areas (I know SPI epoxy primer is OK being outside). However, for areas which are left with the factory basecoat, I'm not so sure since I know that clearcoat is the only thing protecting the basecoat. Should I just shoot everything with SPI epoxy primer for peace-of-mind?

2) Which brings me to my second question, do I need to sand all the way down to metal? If the existing paint isn't deteriorating (except the areas with the already damaged clearcoat), is this required? Am I taking half measures by not sanding all the way to bare metal?

3) Is the SPI Regular Build Primer OK being out in the elements for short periods of time? I'd like to shoot the car with the SPI primer one weekend, block it, and then return to BC/CC the next weekend.


Thanks,
Chris
 
Maybe you should price ALL the materials you would need, plus the equipment you would need, and estimate the amount of money you would have to pay to rent the skills center, not counting your labor, and see if there is any savings. I'm am in no way trying to discourage you from trying it yourself, but most people that have never done it grossly underestimate the amount of time and money it takes to do the job CORRECTLY. As far as the procedure, how long do you want it to last? If the clear is compromised on the top surfaces, that usually includes the tops of the fenders, doors, and quarters, and anything else that is pointed up. Most of the time you're farther ahead stripping it than trying to feather out the damaged areas, time, material, and longevity wise. The car will need to be disassembled to do it correctly, meaning doing it in hourly or daily stages will be difficult at best. IMO, if this is something you want to learn, go for it. If this is something you're doing to save a couple dollars, it's probably not going to happen.
 
texasking - Yes, I have started to price out materials and equipment for this job. The price of sprayable material alone is quite a bit, but SPI seems to have great reviews. I completely agree with you about underestimating the amount of time and money it takes to do a paint job correctly, but I'm OK with that because I find auto body work fun. How long do I want it to last? Well, I would like the paint to last for the remainder of my ownership. I plan to drive this one till the wheels fall off since I really like this car. Probably means I gotta take it down to bare metal huh?

Another option that I'm pursuing is trying to find someone experienced that has their own home spray setup that could help me, but I don't know the best way to find someone like this. I think it would help with equipment costs AND the risk of screwing things up by doing it myself. I have a tendancy to learn the hard way. Not something I want to do for something like this. Furthermore, I could spend more time working on the car on weekends (auto skills center is only open from 9 am to 5 pm on weekends).

anotheridiot - I found a company called House of Klear that says they are a supplier for the Hawaii region. I contacted the owner John and I am waiting to hear back. As per usual for anything I get shipped to Hawaii, I may be put off by shipping costs alone.
 
I think your plan to find someone to help is a good one. But be prepared for them to want you to do it their way, and not the way that is suggested here. I would guess that 90% of the jobs that you describe are not being stripped, but feathered out, primed and painted. Doing it like this will get you 2 to 3 years at best. If you strip it to metal with 80# da, you will only need epoxy, base and clear if there is no dents.
 
Now that you mention the lifespan of the paint when only partially sanding, I would like to sand all the way through. I guess that's why I would like to do it myself because I want to do it right. That's why we have power tools right? Just need a garage!

I've seen a lot of YouTube videos where the damaged area gets feathered and the rest of the panel knocked down with something like 400-600 grit, but questioned the longevity of the repair. I read that SPI epoxy can be used as a filler since it sands well. Can the SPI epoxy fill in 80 grit sanding scratches? Would be awesome if I didn't have to mess with 2K primer.
 
Epoxy is recommended over 80# da scratch. It will fill it easily. In your situation I would strip a panel or 2 at a time then spray 2 coats epoxy. It will be weatherproof until the entire vehicle is done. Then you could just sand the entire car with 320 dry or 400-600 wet, seal with epoxy mixed as a sealer, base and clear. No need for 2K unless you have a lot of bodywork, and the SPI epoxy sands really well, others do not.
 
There are a few dents on the door panels that I need to fill, but most of my panels are pretty straight. After the first application of epoxy primer, I plan to apply body filler, block, and respray with epoxy. My goal is two weekends to strip and apply epoxy primer. The use of epoxy is nice because I should be able to sand at home.

In doing more reading on paint removal, I came across paint removal discs which seem to offer quick paint removal. The Black Hawk discs on Amazon look like they would work. Less heat buildup on the disc and less prone to gumming up with paint. Being that these seem to be more aggressive than 80 grit, would the SPI epoxy fill in marks left from the paint removal discs?


Thanks again for your help!
 
The easy strip discs work pretty well, just go over the metal with 80# da before epoxy. A whole book could be written about paint removal, and the pros and cons with every method. I usually use an eight inch 80# disc on a Makita buffer at 1200 to 1500 rpm to get the majority off, then finish with a 6 inch 80# disc on a da. Would probably take 30 to 45 minutes to do a hood with original paint, ready for epoxy. Other methods I have tried usually take longer, but it depends on the vehicle and what it is painted with. Modern factory finishes don't clog the paper anything like the older ones, just don't turn the speed way up on your sander. Slower is faster.
 
I don't think you're going to save much money. If you do it because you want the experience then that's a good enough reason. Do you have a random orbit (DA) sander? I would not even strip that vehicle. The DA will take care of the top surfaces with prob 80grit maybe even180. Sand the sides with 320 or 400. Do as Texas said one panel at a time and epoxy prime. Got to pull the luggage rack bits off the roof. Does it have grey plastic fenders? If not and they're body color plastic, be very careful sanding them to NOT cut through to the plastic! That's a whole other can of worms.
 
I have a 5" electric DA sander. There is no speed adjustment on the sander. The stock backing pad is hard and I think I should get a soft interface pad since it seems that would make it easier to sand. For my case, is it worth using an air powered DA sander? I've seen some online that can be bought for around $30.

My Element is one of the fully painted ones. Only the plastic trim on the bottom is the black plastic. The front bumper is plastic and that is also painted.

Since I'm getting conflicting information with regard to paint removal, I'll post some pictures of the affected areas where the clearcoat is coming off when I get the chance. IMO, the deterioration isn't that bad, but I welcome any input.
 
It doesn't sound like anyone can convince you not to tackle this. It sounds like the Element may have been repainted. That could cause other issues.
If you are willing to put in the time, could be double what you think, then go for it.
I'd hesitate simply because I don't imagine there would be enough financial gain. Lessons learned, invaluable.
 
.

Since I'm getting conflicting information with regard to paint removal, I'll post some pictures of the affected areas where the clearcoat is coming off when I get the chance. IMO, the deterioration isn't that bad, but I welcome any input.

The problem is that unprotected basecoat has absolutely no uv protection, so even if the base looks good, its deteriorating. Clear coat completes it. So if it was already repainted once, and it is falling off again, you gotta go farther than they did last time. Thats like getting at least a foot past the poor clearcoat where you have a shot that the base was still protected or that is where it will start to break down again.

WE have an old lumina I was replacing the hood on before the camshaft broke in half and wrecked the motor. You can peel up the clear to dusty base.

I agree, if you want the experience and pick up a hobby, then learning is worth paying extra. But if you just want a nice car and some type of warranty for the paint so they would have to do it again, then job it out. I get the problem though, you want to use the car instead of dropping it off at a shop for a week or two. Thats just more cost of a rental.
 
We all have to start somewhere. With an older vehicle , going down to bare metal is more necessary than a later model that may still have good factory primer underneath, but that's your choice if you want to 180 to 220 sand to primer or strip.

You may be able to do some sanding with an electric 5", but I'd definitely hand sand most areas with something longer after priming. If you don't have much , a decent paint stirring stick can make a sanding block.

Paint choice & color is another factor. Metallics & especially tri colors are much more difficult to apply properly with inexperience & poor tools & work area than solid colors are. As difficult as bodywork is for let's say black, the color itself is more forgiving than let's say a silver, especially for future touch up. With some colors you have the choice of single stage paint vs bb/cc. Black, red , & white can be pretty nice in a good single stage.
Also especially for the new person without best of tools & condition, if paint is properly laid thick enough, then good color sanding & buffing skills can make up for a lot.
Another suggestion if you got absolutely no experience or something to practice on would be to sand one panel down to just decent , tape up, & spray with a cheap old school enamel or even lacquer paint, such as from a tractor supply place. Do a little practice color sanding & buffing on it & a little later sand it all off. You can't expect to do perfect first try at something new so a little practice of every skill needed with cheaper materials would be smart.
Lastly , remember that at the end of the day, it's just paint. If you mess up, you can do over. so what. Then for the next vehicle, you will have acquired both skill & supplies. I know of a company that has a red that would look nice on a s2000.;)
 
Back
Top