We have a Perfect Paint Job guide for applying a great paint job using SPI products. What I'm missing is a Perfect Cut and Buff Guide in a sticky some where. There is so much info and so many different ways to approach, I get confused and discouraged. Back in the day it was a couple wool pads, compound and a bucket of water. A simple plan (or three or four) to get from fresh clear or SS with imperfections to a final buff would be nice. If we could some consolidated info without making a redundant best products thread would be great. Save as a sticky, any ideas? I like El_Duderino's post abt 1500/3000 and buff with Menzerna 400. Short and sweet if it'll work.
Perfect Cut and Buff job
- Thread starter Slofut
- Start date
When it comes to buffing, I'm afraid there's no short and sweet answer that will satisfy all different painters, even when using the exact same clearcoat year round. I wholeheartedly agree on your idea, because there is a set of "standard" known procedures that if followed judiciously will net consistently good results. There's some proven sandpaper brands and specific items within those brands that will work great most of the times.
I guess where it gets tricky is that everyone sprays different and in different spraying conditions that even using the exact same clear coats both painters may end up with different hardness or degree of curing that what works for one person does not work for the other.
I remember maybe 10 years ago trying DA sanding and almost always ending up in pigtail city, now a days I can reasonably stick to DA sanding and use Eagle Abrasives and some 3M trizact that I can get a good finish out of all the SPI clears with minimal pig tails, the random one that shows up I know how to fix without chasing my tail and without leaving a trace that it was there in the first place.
What am I doing different now than 10 years ago? I really can't put my finger on it, I just know it has taken many hours of practicing and *^&#@!%ING things up one way or another to get good at it, and I must say reading this forum and getting good info in here has helped a lot as well.
Maybe we should simply start posting pictures of the compounds we use with their matching pads, RPM's of the buffers, etc. The same could be done of the DA sanders and sandpaper we use, that would give quick guidance for the less experienced on which stuff to get and see if they can use it with good results.
I guess where it gets tricky is that everyone sprays different and in different spraying conditions that even using the exact same clear coats both painters may end up with different hardness or degree of curing that what works for one person does not work for the other.
I remember maybe 10 years ago trying DA sanding and almost always ending up in pigtail city, now a days I can reasonably stick to DA sanding and use Eagle Abrasives and some 3M trizact that I can get a good finish out of all the SPI clears with minimal pig tails, the random one that shows up I know how to fix without chasing my tail and without leaving a trace that it was there in the first place.
What am I doing different now than 10 years ago? I really can't put my finger on it, I just know it has taken many hours of practicing and *^&#@!%ING things up one way or another to get good at it, and I must say reading this forum and getting good info in here has helped a lot as well.
Maybe we should simply start posting pictures of the compounds we use with their matching pads, RPM's of the buffers, etc. The same could be done of the DA sanders and sandpaper we use, that would give quick guidance for the less experienced on which stuff to get and see if they can use it with good results.
El_Duderino
Promoted Users
Jorge is 100% correct. So many different variables. Ive been lucky and worked at a high end resto shop for awhile as well as talking with Jason Kilmer and buying his blocks and reading this forum. The 1500/3000 is wham bam, collision style at best. It doesnt cut flat, leaves it wavy smooth. That particular pic is of a Slingshot that had some airbrushing on top of factory paint. I wasnt able to get more pics when it was delivered. Its not show car quality cut and polish but it proves how nice SPI clear is.
Jason Kilmer and the other high end shops spend several weeks with a team of guys hand sanding with acrylic blocks from 800-2500. But thats for cars with almost no budget. Jason prefers Meguiars, my old shop uses Griots, I get my best results with Menzerna. Honestly, it more about how well it's sanded vs compound preference. I do want to try Jims method about blocking flat then refining sand scratches with DA with foam interface pad.
Jason Kilmer and the other high end shops spend several weeks with a team of guys hand sanding with acrylic blocks from 800-2500. But thats for cars with almost no budget. Jason prefers Meguiars, my old shop uses Griots, I get my best results with Menzerna. Honestly, it more about how well it's sanded vs compound preference. I do want to try Jims method about blocking flat then refining sand scratches with DA with foam interface pad.
All good advice above. I'm still trying different methods and products on almost every job. I haven't found a miracle sandpaper or compound yet, but I'm still searching! A lot depends on what you are starting with, and what you expect to end up with. How long the clear has cured makes a huge difference, also.
jlcustomz
evil painter
Definitely no clear cut answer. Results is what matters, but how fast you get there (and stay there) can be improved on. Getting it flat enough in proper stages with enough time in each stage to the point that block sanding doesn't matter & switching to the new foam backed pad triazt technology is basically it & will require less buffing with whatever you buff with.
I'm sure I don't need to say it, but with 4 coats don't crazy heavy sand it & careful those edges.
I'm sure I don't need to say it, but with 4 coats don't crazy heavy sand it & careful those edges.
'68 Coronet R/T
Oldtimer
Even if you get a perfect cut and buff it will look different depending on the color you choose.
Black paint when cut and buffed properly will look like a mirror. However a pearl green, blue etc. while having a great reflection won't look quite as striking as the black.
The goal is to get the clear flat (free of urethane wave and orange peel) and then scratch free. Proper grit selection and sanding techniques are key to producing the final results. You must make sure your removing all of the previous grit scratches at each step. This is why making large jumps (greater than 500) in sandpaper grit is discouraged.
Black paint when cut and buffed properly will look like a mirror. However a pearl green, blue etc. while having a great reflection won't look quite as striking as the black.
The goal is to get the clear flat (free of urethane wave and orange peel) and then scratch free. Proper grit selection and sanding techniques are key to producing the final results. You must make sure your removing all of the previous grit scratches at each step. This is why making large jumps (greater than 500) in sandpaper grit is discouraged.
Thats a good idea Jorge!
It would help even to know what pads work with what compounds etc...
El_Duderino
Promoted Users
Also, what rpms with which compound/polish and pad is everyone using? I tend to run between 600-1000 with menzerna on DeWalt rotary. 3m I have to bump rpms a little higher.
I tried the menzerna 300 on this glasurit 22 line I painted on 3/28, no bake. It is too aggressive for this fresh paint and I'm assuming UV clear as well. I'm out of 400 and this has really kicked my ass. Chasing scratches on the quarters and rear panel for several days until I finally thought to try a less aggressive compound. (I rode the short bus and still do). Hopefully I have them out with 36060.
Jim, would the 3d be too aggressive for fresh 22 line?
I tried the menzerna 300 on this glasurit 22 line I painted on 3/28, no bake. It is too aggressive for this fresh paint and I'm assuming UV clear as well. I'm out of 400 and this has really kicked my ass. Chasing scratches on the quarters and rear panel for several days until I finally thought to try a less aggressive compound. (I rode the short bus and still do). Hopefully I have them out with 36060.
Jim, would the 3d be too aggressive for fresh 22 line?
Attachments
Jim C
Oldtimer
the 3d is not aggressive at all. it cuts really quick but if you feel it with your fingers it doesnt feel like there is any grit in it. i have buffed 1-2-3 day old uv clear with it no problem at all. i got your pm and i would say the 3d would be my compound of choice. it has been years since i used 22 line but i remember it being the nicest ss i have ever used. i would say the aca500 would be perfect for 1-2 month old paint. you should be able to compound it then a quick polish and your done.