PreKote bare metal treatment

T

tonysturbo

I talked to Berry about this. I'm hoping to get some info from him after he does some research about it. We use it on aircrafts to clean the aluminum before the epoxy primer goes down. It's safe on metal and will not flash rust. They offer a wipe also. I'm going to give it a go on this Buick i have in bare metal to see how well it works. Has anyone ever used it here on the forum? I like the SPI W/B wipe but I've seen some flash rust if i wait to long before appling the epoxy primer. This may be a great product for everyone to use on bare metal. Just some FYI.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...24HoAw&usg=AFQjCNGx0527gLD3l7OpUvFGgiUriRmsFw
 
I'd look forward to seeing a brand of metal treatment be authorized for use with SPI epoxy. Most metal treatments have the potential to cause more problems than they solve, though.

I see that this product requires a water rinse, like most other metal treatments. This is where the most mistakes happen, because guys are very resistant to rinsing bare metal. I remember when I was taught to use MetalPrep back in the early 80s, I was told to wipe it off with lacquer thinner, lol. Took me a while to learn the right way.
 
Without looking much into it, it seems kind of like the Pre Treatment wipes from Akzo. You don't have to introduce a water rinse with that process though. Wipe on 2 "coats" and proceed. I believe JimC has used them...maybe he can chime in here.
 
crashtech;25090 said:
I see that this product requires a water rinse, like most other metal treatments. This is where the most mistakes happen, because guys are very resistant to rinsing bare metal.
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Crash, this is one of the things interesting about this product. The TDS shows the PH is 10-11.5 and that will keep the metal from flash rusting. and its 100% water soluable, so all of it gets rinsed away.
http://www.prekote.com/uploads/1/0/7/0/10704239/prekote_product_data_sheet.pdf
 
Another mystery product.
Clear amber liquid sounds like or reminds me of Alodine but as far as I know that is a conversion used on aluminum after cleaning/etching with a phosphoric acid. A PITA to do properly on large complicated items but a good system for aluminum as far as corrosion and paint sticking.
I'm no chemist so I can't imagine what the Prekote product is. Listed as tested safe on Aluminum, Composites, Steel, Galvanized Surfaces, Magnesium, Plastic Surfaces, Titanium, CRES. Does that supposed to mean it is used on all of those materials or just that it won't adversely affect them? I sort of get it with the metals but why would you use a metal treatment on plastics? What is CRES?
Tony, did they ever use the Henkel products, Alumaprep, Alodine where you work on the aircraft aluminum?
 
metalman;25098 said:
Another mystery product.
Clear amber liquid sounds like or reminds me of Alodine but as far as I know that is a conversion used on aluminum after cleaning/etching with a phosphoric acid. A PITA to do properly on large complicated items but a good system for aluminum as far as corrosion and paint sticking.
I'm no chemist so I can't imagine what the Prekote product is. Listed as tested safe on Aluminum, Composites, Steel, Galvanized Surfaces, Magnesium, Plastic Surfaces, Titanium, CRES. Does that supposed to mean it is used on all of those materials or just that it won't adversely affect them? I sort of get it with the metals but why would you use a metal treatment on plastics? What is CRES?
Tony, did they ever use the Henkel products, Alumaprep, Alodine where you work on the aircraft aluminum?
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I work at Duncan Aviation here in Battle Creek MI. We use to use etch and alodine years ago, but have changed over to this product to do planes. So far over two years we have not had any issues with it at all. We use PPG and Shermin Williams epoxy primer over it on every aircraft. I was just going to try the wipes that we stock at work. Most of the metals they list are on aircrafts, but mostly aluminum. I would have to say it sure leave a clean surface to prime over. It replaces 3 steps when used.
 
Henkel..thats that company that makes the wipes for Akzo. I'm not sure if it is straight alodine or what.
 
jeremyb;25101 said:
Henkel..thats that company that makes the wipes for Akzo. I'm not sure if it is straight alodine or what.
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It is nothing like Alodine, except it does change the PH, it may work ok on aluminum but I would question the 100 different metals used in automotive and the metals galvacoatings of all different kinds, like we find in automotive.
It does have a very weak amine other then that its 90%+ water, I think the 700 works fine for me.
I'm sure its good if used right.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, BASF had a similar product and shops would use it and then all of a sudden one panel would go to crap and the other panels would be fine and it left me pulling out my hair, trying to figure out the problem, I think they pulled it and then about a year ago it showed up in Canada had two problems with a couple of our shops who had never had problems before.
 
Etch wipes have been introduced here in Canada over the last couple of years due to the VOC laws in Canada making most etches non-compliant. Sikkens & Sherwin Williams both have them. Good idea for small areas. But large areas are a problem. Other down falls are the wipes tend to dry out in the container after a while. (Packaging issue) & you have to be very carefull to make sure the etch is completly dry before applying primer. With both the Sikkens & Sherwin wipes the primer will not stick & peel off if you have even the slightest spot that is not completly dry when primer is applied. Maybe Iam old school but I still prefer a etch or epoxy that can be sprayed & that I can see that every bit of bare metal is coated properly. With the wipes the coating is transparent so in some cases missing spots is possible.
 
Primed the car with SPI epoxy primer and used the PreKote wipes. After 4 hours i did a tape test and found everything good. Guess i will have to wait and see if anything starts to do anything funny down the line like Berry was saying. tn-12.jpeg

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I called the distributor for them and they want $50 for that canister of 50 wipes and they say single use.
 
chevman;25180 said:
I called the distributor for them and they want $50 for that canister of 50 wipes and they say single use.
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Yeah kind of pricey. We get them for around $40.00 through work. I did find out that you can make your own by just adding the PreKote to the rags yourself for a ton cheaper. Just have to make sure they are not to wet when you wipe. But if your not sure you can just go back over it with water and everything will be fine. I figure for the price and maybe the piece of mind it might be cheap reassurance that nothing will ever come back later down the line. I will keep everyone posted if anything changes.
 
Tony,
Like we discussed, on the car you are doing the metal is pretty straight forward and I see no problems.
As I said before all the problems were with the newer models that had different coatings from the factory to protect the metal.
 
Tony or anyone else that has now tried Prekote,
Any feedback? I plan to shoot a full paint job on aluminum soon and do not want to deal with etch or alodine.

Thanks in advance
 
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