Recommendations for painting indoor heavy machinery - what to put over SPI Epoxy Primer?

[lightnb]

I'm working on restoring vintage shop machines (table saw, drill press, lathe, etc), that are part rolled steel and part cast iron. I plan to clean the old paint off down to bare metal. The SPI Epoxy Primer was highly recommended on a number of forums for auto body restoration, and Andy confirmed via email the other day that there would be no issues with adhesion to cast iron if cleaned properly.

But... Typically, automotive paints are designed to resist UV and weather conditions. For shop machines stored and used indoors, the concerns are sawdust, machine oil, and coolants (in the case of drilling and milling machines). So I don't think the typical automotive paint stack is the right choice.

I'm looking for recommendations on what type of paint to use over the epoxy primer that is suitable for use on indoor machinery. I would like something that has a nice durable finish and can be tinted to any color.

It looks like alkyd enamels are commonly used on machines. Which is readily available as "oil based paint" for cabinets and baseboards at consumer paint stores, and can be thinned with mineral spirits for spraying.

Would something like SW ProClassic Alkyd Interior Enamel sprayed over the SPI Epoxy Primer on cleaned, bare metal produce a good, durable finish for indoor shop machinery?

LeBlonde, a lathe manufacturer, recommends SW DTM B66-100, from their industrial line. But that's a direct to metal paint.

But maybe there's a different grade of machinery enamel that's better for this application than household enamels? Or maybe there's a better approach altogether?

I'm looking for suggestions on a good paint "stack" for this application.

 

[1A Rock]

Are you wanting to spray or brush the finish on?

 

[lightnb]

I think spray would produce a better finish, but I am open to either.

 

[Dean Jenkins]

I don't know the answer, but here is a recent thread from a similar project: http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/pullmax-p7-restoration.7544/#post-93103
He said he used PPG SS for final coat.

 

[64avanti]

PPG makes a 2 part epoxy paint "AMERLOCK 2".

I have used it for years on metal and woodworking machines. 10 years ago, I stripped and painted a Hendey metal lathe with it, and it has held up to oil, hot chips, and any other abuse I've thrown at it.

I've painted most of the machines in my shop with it.

This is a Hammond Glider, previously used to cut lead type to size in a print shop, now used to cut very precise miters. Stripped and shot with Amerlock Shocking Red.

 

[1A Rock]

I have redone a few machines. Be forewarned that every heavy cast iron machine I have stripped had some kind a filler on it under the factory paint. If you intend to strip them to bare metal you will end up redoing it. Unless you are really intent on taking the cast iron pieces to bare metal, I would clean them really well with a strong degreaser. then clean them again. DA sand them to even out the surface. clean them again and epoxy them and build my finish from there.

 

[metalman]

Some of the alkyd enamels are ok on machines "BUT" they take a real long time to fully harden. Single stage urethane (or similar catalyzed paint) on top of the epoxy primer would be a better choice.
I painted a few small parts on my South Bend lathe with a color I mixed from Benjamin Moore satin enamel and put the heat lamp to it. Not a restoration, just quick touch up. If I were to do a complete tear down strip and re-paint I would not use the oil base (not going to happen).

 

[Sparky]

Hi Lightnb,

I’m the one Dean mentioned that restored the P7 Pullmax. I sandblasted to bare metal, but had a lot of filler work to do. They did a lot of filler work when they manufactured it. The SPI epoxy is awesome stuff (used black as that’s what I had), just follow the instructions and pay attention to the actual temps of the metal. (I kept above 70*f) The PPG mid grade paint, I forget the name, I think it was delfleet essential SS is holding up great, cured quick, and cleans easily. I’ve used enamel but hate the slow cure time, but I guess there are ways to speed that up. It’s the best looking machine in my shop now!

 

[lightnb]

Thanks everyone for your advise.

That Pullmax came out nice!

So it seems like the process on that was 2 wet coats with SPI Epxoy Primer, Rage filler, sand the filler 40# up to 180#, two more wet coats of SPI Epxoy Primer, then two wet coats of "PPG SS" on top?

I'm not finding which product you're referring to as "PPG SS". I found the PPG site, but their site search sucks, and I'm not sure if "SS" is an abbreviation for a type of paint, or a specific series that they offer?

Is it "Sea Stock" in the marine paint line?

And it seems like you didn't really need the SPI 2k, you just used a lot more of the Epoxy Primer (before and after the filler), and then went straight to final paint? If that worked well for you, I like the idea of having less types of paints to deal with in the process.

 

[1A Rock]

PPG SS

I believe the SS in PPG SS stands for single stage. All paint MFGs offer single stage. You will want a urethane based single stage. Most likely and industrial line.

And it seems like you didn't really need the SPI 2k, you just used a lot more of the Epoxy Primer

A lot of guys use SPI epoxy only, it fills and sands very well. Also one less product to buy and keep.

 

[Sparky]

Thanks everyone for your advise.

That Pullmax came out nice!

So it seems like the process on that was 2 wet coats with SPI Epxoy Primer, Rage filler, sand the filler 40# up to 180#, two more wet coats of SPI Epxoy Primer, then two wet coats of "PPG SS" on top?

I'm not finding which product you're referring to as "PPG SS". I found the PPG site, but their site search sucks, and I'm not sure if "SS" is an abbreviation for a type of paint, or a specific series that they offer?

Is it "Sea Stock" in the marine paint line?

And it seems like you didn't really need the SPI 2k, you just used a lot more of the Epoxy Primer (before and after the filler), and then went straight to final paint? If that worked well for you, I like the idea of having less types of paints to deal with in the process.

You pretty much got it. Yep the 2K primer was a mistake, I did not understand what its true purpose was at the time, and had a learning experience. The epoxy was all i needed. The ss refers to the paint type I used, Single Stage. The other option was BC/CC Base coat clear coat. SS was all that was needed. It was a good "pre-school" intro into the world of body work and painting. Bolting that machine back together was so rewarding, I cant wait to be at that stage with my car.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Sparky that Pullmax looks great. I'm jealous. Would love to have one (and the space) . Have you used it much? You got shrinking dies? I'm building a cheap little reciprocating machine but man wish I had the space and some extra cash for one of those.
Nice shop BTW

 

[Sparky]

Sparky that Pullmax looks great. I'm jealous. Would love to have one (and the space) . Have you used it much? You got shrinking dies? I'm building a cheap little reciprocating machine but man wish I had the space and some extra cash for one of those.
Nice shop BTW

Thanks Bud, I picked it up out in PA for a deal, but I knew I had to go through it. I just got done milling up the Fay Butler die alignment welding jig. I have one of Fay's books that he wrote on the Pullmax. He gives great detail on how he approaches using the machine, with a nice section on making all kinds of accurate dies, including shrinking dies. I got to do some shrinking on his machine when I was making a replica Fantic minibike tank at his shop. After that I knew i needed to look for one, and bingo this one got listed on FBMP, and a fix'er upp'er too. Once I need to do some metal work, ill be motivated to shift gears into die making, I'm driven by necessity. I have all the tools to do it including a knife heat treat over, but I need to stay focused on the car bodywork for now.

 

[lightnb]

Yep the 2K primer was a mistake, I did not understand what its true purpose was at the time, and had a learning experience. The epoxy was all i needed.

Did you decide that the rage filler mentioned on your other thread was not needed either? Or do you recommend a filler in addition to the epoxy primer? Do you always do the epoxy primer two wet coats at a time? How long do you let it dry before sanding?

I'll look into urethane based single stage paint next.

EDIT: Are we talking about "water-based acrylic urethane single stage"? Or something else?

Could someone list a few good, specific paints (brand/series/model) that would be a good choice to spray on over the SPI epoxy primer? There's way too many options that all seem similar, and the websites aren't useful at explaining how any one paint line is different from another. I do want to pick (or mix) a color. And I want it to last. I don't want to end up ordering the wrong thing because of a similar sounding name.

 

[64avanti]

PPG makes a 2 part epoxy paint "AMERLOCK 2"

 

[Sparky]

Did you decide that the rage filler mentioned on your other thread was not needed either? Or do you recommend a filler in addition to the epoxy primer? Do you always do the epoxy primer two wet coats at a time? How long do you let it dry before sanding?

I'll look into urethane based single stage paint next.

EDIT: Are we talking about "water-based acrylic urethane single stage"? Or something else?

Could someone list a few good, specific paints (brand/series/model) that would be a good choice to spray on over the SPI epoxy primer? There's way too many options that all seem similar, and the websites aren't useful at explaining how any one paint line is different from another. I do want to pick (or mix) a color. And I want it to last. I don't want to end up ordering the wrong thing because of a similar sounding name.

The bare metal had pits and I wanted a smoother finish. I also wanted to practice using filler. Im glad I used it as the finish is much better.

I’ve learned here from the experienced members to start with 2 coats of epoxy on bare metal. 3 if it is on chassis parts that will be left in epoxy as the final finish. On the hood I epoxy’ed last week I lightly block sanding it after 48hours to find highs and lows. On a machine though if I was to do it again, I would do 2 coats of epoxy on bare metal, following the epoxy directions to a tee. If necessary, do any filler work within the 7 day epoxy window, then 2 more coats of epoxy, then SS paint.

Keep in mind that I also chose this method to practice for my Firebird project. I wanted to get familiar with the products and procedures. It may be overkill in some peoples opinions, but it did come out nice, and the finish seems resilient.

I’m not familiar with all the SS paint brands out there. I chose PPG delfleet essential because it was what brand the automotive paint shop sells a couple towns over from me, and it was not the most expensive paint the shop sold either, some of that PPG paint is pricey. On the PPG website they list all their paint lines and you can read up on them. I just read about a top coat SS paint called Amercoat, a durable chip resistant industrial coating. Might be worth looking into for a machine. I just read up on the Amerlock2 that was suggested, it’s an epoxy primer. The ppg specs warn it can chalk if exposed to UV light. I like SPI’s epoxy, especially since I’m getting familiar with it. I figure why complicate things.

 

[lightnb]

Thank you for your replies.

I will look more into filler in case I need it.

So the AMERLOCK 2 that was suggested that is also an epoxy, and I'm not sure if that is a final coat epoxy that goes over the SPI Epoxy Primer, or if the AMERLOCK 2 is a DTM alternative to the epoxy primer?

I found the product page for the Delfleet Essential line, I think the one I would be looking for is the DFE-20 "Single Stage Polyurethane Enamel". Were you happy with the finish results? Did it hold up for you?

I think the best strategy is to figure out what I need and try it. Worst case scenario, I have to redo it and I've hopfully learned something in the process.

So looking through the site and datasheets, and without having auto paint experience, it seems that I would need to order several components:

1. ESSS "Single Stage Slow Hardener DFETB-002 W/ESU419" *OR* "Hardener ESH200" to activate the DFE-22/DFE-20?
2. Slow Activator (68° -76°F) ESX520 *OR* another ESX5xx Activator, depending on temperature.
3. Color Pigment to get the desired color ESM101, ESM102, ESM10x, etc.
4. And should I also be using the ESR300 "Exempt Reducer" to spray this with a HVLP gun?

And is there a way to modify the Activator and/or Hardener on site depending on temperature that day? The ranges of each speed is very narrow, it seems like there should be a way to make it faster or slower at the time of painting, rather than buying one size and waiting for the right exact temperature.

Is the SPI 700-1 Cleaner suitable for cleaning the final layer of SPI Epoxy Primer before applying the Delfleet Essential, or do I need a different cleaning product?

Thanks,
Nick

 

[64avanti]

Amerlock 2 can be used DTM and is very durable when used DTM. Most of my machines are painted with just Amerlock 2. Now that I know just how good SPI epoxy is, I have started using it as my primer instead of the Amerlock 2, then topcoating with the Amerlock.