Stranded Fiberglass Filler

O

Outlaw

Any good recommendations for a good fiberglass stranded filler to use over welds? I have tried Everglass Fiber Tech and its ok but wondering if there is something more user friendly and less expensive. Im looking at Everglass and Glass Lite. Or anything else you guys might recommend. I have also heard good things about Duraglass, but I do not think its in the fiberglass group.
 
I should have included Metal to Metal in there too. I just go off the phone with Evercoat and they said Everglass and Glass Lite are not water proof products.
 
Please don't take offense to this, but I've seen this same question asked on many, many forums, where there is a belief that fiber stranded filler needs to be used over welds. Planish, grind, and then treat them like any other part of the panel.. If there are defects in the welds such as porosity or lack of weld penetration, it should be removed and re-welded. A properly prepped-for-paint weld seam should hold SPI epoxy just as well as the panel next to the weld, and provides all the "waterproofing" you need.

Fiber reinforced filler will adhere no better to the weld than epoxy primer.
 
No offense taken, I check all my welds where I can with a bright light behind the weld and fill any pin holes with weld. In some areas, I cant get a light behind it, or the light may not be enough to show a pin hole. Waterproof filler is just extra insurance for me in case I miss something. I do not use it to correct a bad weld. My welding and body work is self taught so I dont have the confidence to assume I can do it perfect without insurance. Thanks MP, I agree with what you are saying.

There is also some out here who feel the stranded water proof fillers help with minimizing ghosting or mapping over welds compared to traditional fillers, so I figure thats just one more insurance I can add to the equation. Whether or not it does help minimize mapping, I dont care unless there is a down side to using it.
 
There is also some out here who feel the stranded water proof fillers help with minimizing ghosting or mapping over welds compared to traditional fillers, so I figure thats just one more insurance I can add to the equation.


I've heard that mentioned as well, and one of these proponents in particular also expressed to me the need for strengthening the weld seam. In retrospect, I'll add that most mud daubers put his work to shame, and his weld seams needed all the help they could get to keep from falling apart, as weld penetration was non-existent. So considering that source, this need/recommendation that he was readily handing out in his use of fiberglass over welds was nothing more than a Band-Aid to sub-standard work. Not to suggest that you are putting out that type of work, I've just heard quite a bit of the same recommendations that no doubt came from similar sources and have been repeated enough where they are now accepted by some as a requirement over welds. So me being outspoken (don't know when to shut up), I'll normally take the bait and put in my $.02.

In the context of lapped seams, I think we all can agree the ghosting is a result of differing expansion rates of 1 vs. 2 thicknesses of metal. With that in mind, I would suggest that excessive weld proud left on either side of the panel can produce a material thickness that far exceeds just the two panel thicknesses of a lapped seam, where any excessive weld left behind may also contribute to a ghosting effect. IMO the back side should be dressed just like the front, if access is available. In the end we should have a panel with consistent thickness throughout, including the weld, to lessen any chance of ghosting (to the best of our ability).

Looking at this picture of a 1951 triumph Saloon, the forming capabilities of the time (limited as they were) meant the rear window area/roof attachment required some welding.


Picture033.jpg



Looking at this area from the inside, you can see the seams that were done at the factory. There is a noted absence of fiberglass impregnated filler, but more importantly, there were no ghost lines to be found, anywhere.


Picture019-1.jpg
 
Outlaw, just to be clear, I was only suggesting the fibered stuff for possibly use on a lap joint on your roof you were discussing not being able to yourself do a butt joint on. Definitely not for the average weld that should hopefully only need minor skimcoating.. Hope I didn't confuse you on that. My planned use for the product I mentioned was over where I'm bonding a factory stainless trim part to the body, which has a recess in the area where 2 90 degree parts will be bonded & couldn't be properly welded together.

Just to mention on your welds, A rotary wirebrush can help clean them better to see if you missed a spot..
 
i always use metal2metal over welded areas. i do finish my welds out so everything is generally grinded flush and even so i really dont need to use anything special. regular filler will be fine but its just a habit i guess to use metal2 metal. i really avoid stranded filler whenever possible because it traps too many air pockets which can show in the finish when the sun heats up the surface. metal2metal never shrinks back and if you dont get the weld perfect its really not a big deal but definitely dont leave lumpy welds and expect to bury them and not have a problem. no product will be a miracle cure for poor finished welds. grind smooth and work everything as flat as possible first. the usc version called all metal, i have heard is not as good. i know people who have had that shrink on them. i have never has evercoat's do that
 
jlcustomz;n81093 said:
Outlaw, just to be clear, I was only suggesting the fibered stuff for possibly use on a lap joint on your roof you were discussing not being able to yourself do a butt joint on. Definitely not for the average weld that should hopefully only need minor skimcoating.. Hope I didn't confuse you on that. My planned use for the product I mentioned was over where I'm bonding a factory stainless trim part to the body, which has a recess in the area where 2 90 degree parts will be bonded & couldn't be properly welded together.

Just to mention on your welds, A rotary wirebrush can help clean them better to see if you missed a spot..

JL, no problem, I didnt get confused. I feel my welds are very solid and I have good penetration. The thinking behind a waterproof stranded glass is just in case I miss a pinhole. I honestly believe a lot of my welds could be finished with a coat of epoxy and a little high build primer. I guide coat my welds to make sure I have any high spots ground off or leveled, (not ground to thin tinfoil). It looks like any filler will be sanded off and only left in the low spots.
 
Jim C;n81095 said:
i always use metal2metal over welded areas. i do finish my welds out so everything is generally grinded flush and even so i really dont need to use anything special. regular filler will be fine but its just a habit i guess to use metal2 metal. i really avoid stranded filler whenever possible because it traps too many air pockets which can show in the finish when the sun heats up the surface. metal2metal never shrinks back and if you dont get the weld perfect its really not a big deal but definitely dont leave lumpy welds and expect to bury them and not have a problem. no product will be a miracle cure for poor finished welds. grind smooth and work everything as flat as possible first. the usc version called all metal, i have heard is not as good. i know people who have had that shrink on them. i have never has evercoat's do that

Thanks Jim, I think I am seeing it just like you. Habit or insurance......if it does no harm, why not use it in areas more vulnerable to water damage down the road. Just because there may not be a reason to use it, is there a good reason not to? I will pick up a quart of the metal to metal and compare it to the Evercoat Fiber Tech. Fiber Tech is a little messy to work with and pretty expensive. Once you do get it on, it does sand really nice.
 
Dougmin, I will have to check out the Duraglass. I was thinking it was not waterproof?
 
Thanks MPC, I agree on fiberglassing poor welds for strength is not an option. I dont think it would help a bad weld, only hold it together long enough to get a nice expensive finish on it and then the fat lady will sing. Im not a professional and I dont do any work for others. I have three 56 Ford F Series trucks I have collected over the years for retirement project. I go pretty slow and research everything to death. I have no time limits and if I dont get one or all of them before I have to give it up, well thats ok too. I really enjoy being amoung all the guys in the forum and learn a lot.
 
If pinholes in your welds is your main concern, Id say take Jims advice on using a skim coat of metal to metal. One of it's main uses is over rough welded areas, helping by expanding & contracting closer to the rate of metal. Fiber products help to bridge over the whole area, but are far from best at getting in pinholes.
 
Jim C;n81095 said:
i always use metal2metal over welded areas. i do finish my welds out so everything is generally grinded flush and even so i really dont need to use anything special. regular filler will be fine but its just a habit i guess to use metal2 metal. i really avoid stranded filler whenever possible because it traps too many air pockets which can show in the finish when the sun heats up the surface. metal2metal never shrinks back and if you dont get the weld perfect its really not a big deal but definitely dont leave lumpy welds and expect to bury them and not have a problem. no product will be a miracle cure for poor finished welds. grind smooth and work everything as flat as possible first. the usc version called all metal, i have heard is not as good. i know people who have had that shrink on them. i have never has evercoat's do that

Jim do you use epoxy first over your welds then Metal 2 Metal. I have always used epoxy primer over welded and bonder panels first
 
Yes, I have not stepped up to TIG yet, I think it would be a better method from what I have researched. Just not sure Im ready for the learning curve.
 
Some of the posts in this thread remind me of a previous subject I raised on 60's mussle car lap welds. I had a 69 Buick Grand Sport Hardtop. The roof attaches to the rear side window posts with an over lap of two pieces of sheet metal where the roof skin meets the side post skin. The seam is lower than the sheet metal on the sides it joins. Then its leveled with lead or some kind of filler, I dont remember which. So, you have two pieces of sheet metal lapped together and leveled with some kind of filler or lead. No ghosting what so ever. If it could be done in 1969, what did they do different that it seems to be such a risk today?
 
Primarily because back then they used lead in those "valleys", and the lead has a certain amount of give/flex. That type of seam is used to speed up the assembly process (over the butt weld seams I showed on the Triumph), and you'll see many of the newer cars/trucks use a similar lap joint up on the roof where they now just smear a trail of seam sealer over it. All in the interest of getting it done quicker. When someone does a lap joint in the middle of a quarter panel, for instance, in most cases they are using a polyester or other similar filler that does not have as much give. So movement under them tends to show more readily. Also, the lapped flange that the repop manufacturer's use typically only offset one panel thickness, so there is no valley that used to be left for a lead filled seam to act as a "buffer zone".
 
MP, are you a Tig fan? I would really like to learn both. That new Lincoln Square Wave 200 is selling like hot cakes.
 
Back
Top