Substitute for PPG 894

ksungela

Member
I'm having a shop base and clear my next car. The shop uses PPG Global 894. Ideally I want and SPI clear that sprays similar to the 894 so the painter doesn't have a big learning curve. I probably don't want to use Universal as its too soft for me to cut and buff (I'm just not good with the soft clears). Which SPI clear would be the best substitute?
 
Probably Euro, but have you talked to the shop about using a product that is out of their norm? A lot of painters don't like to do that.
 
One thing about the 894 that I don't like is the recommended max film build is only 3 mils IIRC. Your painter should be comfortable with Euro. Pretty easy to spray straight away.

Surprised you are trusting this to a Shop considering your attention to detail Ken.
 
Hmmm, I know the shop starts cutting with 600, so they must be doing more than 3 mils. He's more meticulous than me, but he charges way more than I would. I'm done with base and clearing in my attached garage .
I'll may need to put on my SPI sales hat to get them to use it.
 
Here is the TDS of D894. What I've used of it, it was OK but more a fast drying collision clear. Got pretty hard after a few days curing.


I would be wanting to put Universal on the type of stuff you do Ken. I really don't think you'd have any issues. Universal buffs so easy.

The 3 mils recommendation would be when it's dry. Equivalent to 3 coats. Probably has to do with several things like VOC regs etc. but I think also due to it hardness, chipping could be an issue when applying more than 3 coats. I may be wrong about that though.
 
so the painter doesn't have a big learning curve.
No Offense, but,
He can't spray Universal out the chute,
You need another shop because he ain't no real painter.
Directions are very clear,concise and Simple.

SPI products are as Idiot proof as you will ever encounter in the Paint World.
This coming from one. Idiot that is. And, a Painter.

You may just have some New Converts to JOY of SPI Products.
 
No Offense, but,
He can't spray Universal out the chute,
You need another shop because he ain't no real painter.
Directions are very clear,concise and Simple.

SPI products are as Idiot proof as you will ever encounter in the Paint World.
This coming from one. Idiot that is. And, a Painter.

You may just have some New Converts to JOY of SPI Products.
It's not that simple.
Put aside the irritation of the average Joe off the street coming in and telling you what products to use (not speaking of Ken here) Most of us who do this for a living have product lines we are comfortable with and know how to use. While some may be open to the idea of trying new to them products others may not.
And it's hard to blame them as a screw up due to not being familiar with the product is on them and is extra unpaid work to correct and costs them money. Hobbyist screws up, oh well I'll just redo it. Pro screws up, it costs him or his shop time and money, and could ultimately affect his employment depending on the type of people he works for.
First time I used SPI Matte Clear was on my Boss at the time Corvette. I was nervous as I could be as I'd never used it before and was about to do an overall with it. Thankfully it was a great product and I didn't screw it up.
I'm one of SPI's biggest fans but I can't fault a guy for not stepping out of his comfort zone.
 
So we make the shop/ painter happy and not the Owner nowadays?
Insurance work,yeah,Custom work,the Customer is always Right.
Hopefully it will all turn out fine and everyone will be happy.

Yeah, I get IT. But I'm guessing the Owner isn't Average.
After all,it's a CYA World nowadays.
 
Two jobbers in my area stock PPG Global 894, both quoted $431/ gallon, $213/qt harder. yikes!, SPI has me spoiled.
Chris, thanks for the info. The shop owner is a fairly young guy, 30's, and does top notch work, 2 year backlog, Great 8 level stuff, and $$$$. He quoted me finishing the body work and painting for $30K. Too rich for me, so I'll just let him squirt it. I think he'll be open minded. He can practice on my car to potentially cut his clear cost going forward by almost 75%.
 
@MikeK , typically if a customer wants me to use some material that they have purchased, the negotiation stops right there and I send them on their way. Most of us that do this for a living develop a system that works for us where results are as predictable as possible, that's what's needed when running a business. I don't think it's right for anyone to bash technicians for not allowing their material choices to be dictated to them. The customer is right, up to the point where they try to tell me HOW to do my job. They can tell me WHAT to do all day long, though.

@ksungela All that said, it's very cool the the tech in this instance is agreeing to try something new to him that we all know is better. I would not blame him if he gets more runs than normal or anything like that though, it's part of the learning curve.
 
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@MikeK , typically if a customer wants me to use some material that they have purchased, the negotiation stops right there and I send them on their way. Most of us that do this for a living develop a system that works for us where results are as predictable as possible, that's what's needed when running a business. I don't think it's right for anyone to bash technicians for not allowing their material choices to be dictated to them. The customer is right, up to the point where they try to tell me HOW to do my job. They can tell me WHAT to do all day long, though.

@ksungela All that said, it's very cool the the tech in this instance is agreeing to try something new to him that we all know is better. I would not blame him if he gets more runs than normal or anything like that though, it's part of the learning curve.
100% agree!!!
 
I dunno, if I were a shop and saw some guy coming in with boxes of his own parts and materials I'd lock the door. How old is the stuff? Where did he get it? Is it a brand I know, etc, etc. Just think if you went in to a high end engine builder with your Summit Racing boxes and "told" him you want those parts used vs what they use.
 
I stand by my statement. He can't spray SPI,he Ain't no Painter.

NEVER said to drag a bunch of crap into the man's shop and USE IT.
YOU DID. YOU turned this into a RANT about something your obviously not happy about in Your world.
NOTHING to do with ME.
I'm WITH YOU. As a business owner,It's YOUR choice to use or not,to accept the Job or not but ALSO to Explain WHY,and maybe use a Better Product to Your advantage with an Open Mind and Attitude.

Even a damn fool will teach you something if you just Listen.

IF you READ the OP's First Post,HE WANTED SPI.
NOT 5 Star or some other CRAP,not that Global is, but you make it sound like this was MY Idea and have no "idea" what of.
AND, Was a "suggestion" NOT a DEMAND but would PREFER IT over the Global and ASKED about a good SPI SUBSTITUTE.
YOU ALL Promote SPI HERE and at Your WORK but then the opportunity to do so here,is turned into THIS.
It appears the OP ANSWERED ALL OUR CONCERNS. He's Obviously Not Average.
AND, As I said,Everybody actually DOING THIS WORK is HAPPY.

Mr. ksungela my Apologies.
 
It sounds like the OP and the shop have it covered. I know when I painted at a shop they asked me what clear I liked and I mentioned SPI, but they wouldn't let me use it there. (I did end up using UV on 2 projects, but they forced me back to PPG)

Sometimes there is more to it than "being able to spray" a product. A shop has to protect themselves and while we all believe in the product, a person who is not familiar with it cant be expected to just except it and put their name on it.
 
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Kind of on topic, my buddy is getting a GN painted right now and he asked what I used on one of the GN's I painted. I told him SPI black and UV clear. He mentioned it to the shop, they said they would use the base, but not the clear, they were familiar with it but it was too soft for them.

Bottom line, is people have their preferences and at the end of the day as long as a good product is being used then so be it. SPI is awesome, but it isnt the end all be all. It's just another great product.
 
Mike, we are all friends here. :cool: Nobody is attacking you. Crash and I were just reacting to/addressing what you said in your first 2 posts in this thread. Just sharing our opinions, as two guys in the industry.
 
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