WARNING......product failure

MJM

MJM

Promoted Users
Life is a learning lesson, so is painting a vehicle. As some of you know I had a filler issue not drying. Being the amateur, I thought it was my mistake by not adding enough hardener ( I know I added enough ). Well today I was still stewing over it so I called Evercoat and explained the situation.

After being shown how to read the products manufacture date, and how long the product is usable from manufacture date, I come to find out the filler and hardener where out of date. The filler was made in 2010, and the hardener in 2009.

Those two products where only out of date by 10 years.

So for us amateurs out there, check the product manufacturing date before use. At least I am comforted knowing I'm not a complete idiot that can't mix in hardener correctly.

Removed filler with a blade that hadn't hardened after 24 hours.
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Removed the filler film with thinner and a rag, then blocked the panel with 180.
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Sprayed two coats of epoxy yesterday so I can have a chemical bond with fresh filler that's not out dated.
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Could ya share the method of reading the Evercoat date code, and what is the life expectancy of the stuff?
 
DanMcG said:
Could ya share the method of reading the Evercoat date code, and what is the life expectancy of the stuff?
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The date code is located on the bottom of the hardener tube, and the date code on the can of filler is located on the bottom of the can when you flip it upside down. Material is good for one year of manufacture.

Here is the new hardener. The first digit is the year manufactured, the 2nd and 3rd digits is the month. This hardener was manufactured in 2021..(1)....and (05) May. So the product is good until May of 2022.

Evercoat Hardener
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Close up of date code located at bottom of tube seal.
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New filler material date code on bottom of can.
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Sorry about the upside down date code on the filler can. Stand on your head to read easier, lol
 
Now Barry, I know you didn't stand on your head to read the filler can date code.....so flipping your phone around IS cheating!!!

LOL....
 
Really good information, now I have to go check mine. Ordered through Amazon a few weeks ago, if it is out of date I'm going to be steamed.
 
Dean Jenkins said:
Really good information, now I have to go check mine. Ordered through Amazon a few weeks ago, if it is out of date I'm going to be steamed.
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You're welcome. Here's some more tech information I acquired today from Evercoat. Plastik Honey can't be used with fillers that use Ecotechnology in fillers. So Plastik Honey can't be used with Evercoats Ultra Extra since it contains Ecotechnology within the filler. Also, hardener goes out of date quicker than filler.
 
My local jobber was out of the Ultra Extra last week so I bought the original can of Ultra Extra from Oriellys Auto parts paint store.

I picked up a fresh can of Evercoat Ultra Extra from my local jobber today. He has it in stock again.
 
GOOD to know on the filler. I use Rage Ultra wonder if that is the same it states it has EcoResin tech on the can. What would happen if you did? Did he say?
 
MJM said:
You're welcome. Here's some more tech information I acquired today from Evercoat. Plastik Honey can't be used with fillers that use Ecotechnology in fillers. So Plastik Honey can't be used with Evercoats Ultra Extra since it contains Ecotechnology within the filler. Also, hardener goes out of date quicker than filler.
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Plastik honey is sooooo 1980"S. Seriously. There are much better and preferable products to extend working time. If you need thin flowing coats there are glazes that will do that as well.
 
I have used lots of funky filler and hardener before, but I have never seen it not harden. Not saying it can't happen, just has never happened to me (as long as it had hardener in it :) )
 
I do think that the hardener in particular has a limited shelf life. In my mind, that is the most suspect component. Since I don't know and don't really want to keep track of decoding date codes, we simply write on our hardener tubes when we buy them. Of course that doesn't mean that they aren't already a little old, but there would be no way we'd ever use a hardener tube that we'd had on hand more than a year or so. And we'd probably pass on a 10+ year old can of filler as well.
 
I worked on a boat bottom once and used the "West" material and tried mixing regular resin and hardner in the West powder material and it wouldn't get hard no matter how much hardner or heat I put to it, had to use the West 2 part resin and hardner with their powder material. I wonder if it has the same kind of reaction where it cancelled the hardening effect due to 2 different types of ingredients comming together.
 
Epoxy's definitely have a shelf life where they might feel ok, but not kick over.

MEKP liquid is one of the worst for going bad. Many new clear faced packets are hung on pegboard being exposed to at least a little uv light , even if not actual sunlight. This is my main product to possibly do a small test.

Poly fiberglass resin itself generally gets thicker & crappier to work with from age, but will harden. May eventually harden fully on it's own with bad or not enough hardener, but not in a work schedule time. The highest quality poly resins have a super short shelf life, sometimes not much over 1 week. Professional manufacturer use only.

Never had a tube of blue, white, or red hardener paste soft enough to come out the tube & not work, yet.

Urethane caulk, sealants such as windshield stuff get stiffer & then lumpy as they get out of date. Tremco stuff I use at work suggests 11 month shelf life from mfg date, less in high heat. Something to think about with storage location. However it will still stick & harden within reason.

Silicone sealant tubes will usually have expiration date at top near where you screw tube on. they will apply ok when going out of date, but may not harden ever. They WILL screw you royally. This is my main check the date product.

I think evercoat honey is still ok in this day & age, but mainly to refresh filler that's still good but lost a bit of it's original (honey) from lack of proper stirring where it rose to top or from age. As Chris said, other product to flow & extend.

Back to the original didn't harden thread, I thought it a little odd that it was thought to be not putting enough hardener in during hot weather & it not drying over night. I wasn't there to see what was mixed, where is generally an educated eyeball estimating by quantity , product, & temp. Not like pouring paint products to a line or weight.

So, in a way not your fault, but kind of an amateur thing to have that much applied before finding out it's not drying. It doesn't matter what product you're talking about or if you just purchased it, sometimes a small sample mixture is well worth the effort. Particularly so when you don't do something often enough to have a feel for it in your conditions, when you know it's questionably old, is a new to you product, or total different temps than last time used.

Also just because it could be bad doesn't mean it's not still good. With slightly stiffening filler, I use Honey or fresh lighter fillers & make sure hardener tube feels ok. With epoxy or poly primer you carefully stir all the settling out till it feels right & do a small sample to check for drying. If not drying, new hardener with old base product may be fine.

Live, learn, & relearn as you get older.:(
 
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As long as were on the subject of fillers, could someone answer a couple questions for me. I've looked around the net but really haven't found anything on subject of, at what temperature range you can work with filler? And once applied and sanded, how long you can leave it without covering it in more epoxy?
I don't want to get all my filler work done and sanded to perfection only to have the weather change for the worst and not be able to get it sealed until spring if it's not advised .
 
dont think i've ever had filler go bad . except when very little is left in the can . hardener is cheap why use old stuff ? 1/2 gal of anything is bad. air and moisture will cause all kinds of problems. thats why i tend to buy qrts and always pour my paint into qrts .
you can put tin foil in the can to seal the filler from the air in the can . or use mig gas .
 
With filler, hot & extra hot will just dry faster & cold will make it dry slow, particularly hard enough to sand & not be sticky on top. Good to have an infared gauge to determine surface temperatures. Most of us use some sort of auxiliary heat in winter when needed in an area we're working on. Infared heat is great, can have little portable heaters or the more expensive body shop type units. Cheapest is screwing in a 250 w infared bulb into a metal standing adjustable lamp. Use the ir gauge to make sure you don't get too hot. Around 170 degrees from a heat bulb way too close is approx point of bubbling up all material.
Biggest thing with raw filler is having epoxy under it & don't actually get it wet. All indoors should be fine for months. Don't have actual temp numbers for filler, but lets say under 70 definitely dries a little slower, under 60 much more difficult to dry ,under 50 I have done, but best not to. Filler ok to get colder after just cured, unlike fresh epoxy.
 
Thanks for taking the time JL, I'll look into a IR heater sounds like a good thing to have for anything.
The temp range you talked about sounds about what I was thinking, I guess my biggest concern was if the filler would wick up moister from the air and affect the end results.
With any luck I'll get some mud on, and epoxied this coming weekend, so it might be a non issue.
 
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