Why won,t cheap sprayguns not last?

Fly

Promoted Users
I,m
trying to learn as I go. Like so many new guys I watch a lot of YouTube videos, most likely too many. But I keep hearing don't buy cheap
spray guns because they won't last. I,m a retired tool & die maker so I can look at a machined product & spot quality or poor workman
ship. I bought a Astro HE 1.3. I have not used it yet, but I took it down & it look very good as far as machine work. It was all CNC machined.
No gaskets I see that would leak. The packing I keep hearing about? I did not take it down that far. This is a $100 gun. What wears out on cheap guns
that would not on high dollar guns.? The needle & nozzle I would guess. This needle does not look like it,s stainless. But is that true? I a see guy that
has a array of guns cheap & expensive. One guy that seems to do excellent work said he has a $80 gun he has had for some time & still uses it from
time to time. This is just a hobby I,m getting into so I do not think I would wear it out, if I clean & maintain it as I should. Please give your thoughts.

Fly
 
I'm not the guy to be commenting on cheap guns as long ago I decided that I only wanted to use the best. Being this is my profession that makes sense. If you are just wanting to do a car or two I can understand your concerns. As far as cheap guns go Astro's aren't bad. If you break it down each time and clean it and lube the needle and the trigger it will last decently. If you had a SATA to compare it to, being you are a Machinist and broke that down you would see the difference. How a cheap gun is made is only half the question though. How they spray compared to a high quality gun is the other half. Expensive guns are expensive for a reason. They are not just overpriced. Cheap guns are cheap for a reason. Just like anything else in this life.
 
Here is something I tell learning to do it your self guys.
A cheap gun may be a way to go for a job or few, and if you get serious about doing more, then pop the $400 to 1000 gun.
Some of the cheap guns spray good, but the reason a full-time painter
don't use them is everyday painting gun will wear out in a month or two because of the quality of metal used or lack of.
Whereas my 2000 sata RP bought in 98 used about daily and never rebuilt
The LPH 400 bought at about the same time still a go-to gun.
 
Yes Chris I understand your point. If I made my living working with a gun every day I would for sure move up to a more
quality gun. The tools I used in Tool & die work did not come Harbor Freight (wink). Being I have never picked up a SATA
I have no way of knowing. But just looking at this gun the trigger is very smooth. I sprayed some water on some card board
& it looks like a good pattern. But what do I know other than video I watched. I,m having fun getting set up. My problem is the weather
here in Okla, it 16 degrees & I don't plan to shoot anything for awhile. I love this form you guys are the best. I hope you can put up
with my ignorant questions for a while. But like the ole saying Ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is for ever. So I can learn with you guys
help & practice I hope.
 
Barry you bring up something I wondered about. When you rebuild a gun, what is replaced mostly. Is it the nozzle & needle?
 
Fly, You'll mostly replace packing seals (usually plastic or graphite) and rubber o-rings. But I seriously doubt you'll have to replace any parts at your rate of use. Or unless you bugger an oring. You disassemble and clean with every use, clean everything like a machinist would and put it back together. Like field cleaning a rifle. But you prob won't need parts for a long time under less than daily hard use. I don't have an Astro but my favorite go to guns are Finex 1000 small gun and 2000 full size gun, both about $130. I have Satas for large panels or overalls. I use the Finex guns about 5 or 6 times a week. Pros would use them 5 or 6 times before 9am. The black SS pics I posted recently were sprayed with the 1000 detail gun.
 
Fly
I never rebuilt the old sata; the Iwata was rebuilt last year needle, fluid tip, and air cap.
 
I also worked in a CNC machine shop as a programmer. The main difference in quality is the acceptable tolerance levels for the parts being machined and the quality of materials being used. Working in Aerospace tolerances can be plus or minus .0005" while production parts can be plus or minus .002" and sometimes higher. Parts made out of 304 stainless steel as compared to 316 stainless steel will also have a noticeable quality difference.

In order to hold the tighter tolerances the machined parts must be inspected much more frequently so nothing out of spec gets by. Productions parts on the other hand are maybe checked 1 out of 100 and it is easy for out spec parts to be included.

Consider that countries like China, Taiwan, Mexico, etc. where "cheap" things are made do not hold the tighter tolerances. So quality varies from item to item, whereas other countries, like Germany, Switzerland and the good ole USA are know for high quality and consistency.
 
well, '68, my opinion was turned around about 12 years ago. Got to quote the job for tank drive wheels, not the final paint, but sandlbasting the rust off and spraying a red oxide primer on them so the chips cut off of them in the US facility were not full of rust and worth more as scrap. No shit. Yeah, forgings coming in on a boat and immediately rusting on the trip. This was not just surface rust, it was like they were drug thru the ocean.

Just made in USA does not mean the whole deal. When the military gets on a buy USA binge, they can never find seals or bearings.

So when someone points out an "assembled" in USA deal, same damn parts. We learned this when the southern states got all proud of themselves for building foreign cars there. Tariff free parts so Americans work.

I caved and bought a LPH-400, did not make me a better painter. Some people are born for it. Back of my mind when I pull out the harbor freight purple gun to spray some adhesion promoter, its a 15.00 gun, will I waste a dollar of good solvent to clean it or accept its going to die.

Finex makes some pretty good 35-40.00 guns. But still the same dead thought process, I am not ruining a thousand dollar gun.
 
Well, it is now come to my attention that the 3M Accuspray is no longer a cheap gun. Cannot find them for 99 anymore after another clip holding the spray head on broke. New design only use the new design 2.0 cups, which is confusing anyway since you think 2.0 as a orifice size of their spray heads. Cheapest new "pro" gun is 274 on amazon, 336 for a starter kit. Found 1.8 heads at Zoro for 32. Guess I see on monday because spraying Chemical Agent Resistant Coating thru any metal gun is going to kill it like you are using it for bedliner. I did find one source for 94.00 for the first rev of the gun, tried to order 4 and it said to let someone else get a deal too. Ended up getting billed from 8090.com
 
I've been using an Astro Star since the 1990's, paid $79.00 for it and still use it regularly for all my
primers and woodworking finishes.
I've never rebuilt or replaced anything on it.
 
In order to hold the tighter tolerances the machined parts must be inspected much more frequently so nothing out of spec gets by. Productions parts on the other hand are maybe checked 1 out of 100 and it is easy for out spec parts to be included.
yup! another ex machinst. screw machines(production) mainly but also had to do small run parts on cnc lathe. production on screw machines= inspect 6 parts every hour. could be kicking out a part every 7 seconds. small run cnc lathe= inspect each part. kick out a part every 1-2 minutes.
screw machine= plus minus a couple thou.
cnc lathe= plus or minus a couple tenths.

bad quality shows with good quality side by side.
park a yugo next to a beemer. hell- park it next to a pinto and the quality of the pinto will shine. :)
 
yup! another ex machinst. screw machines(production) mainly but also had to do small run parts on cnc lathe. production on screw machines= inspect 6 parts every hour. could be kicking out a part every 7 seconds. small run cnc lathe= inspect each part. kick out a part every 1-2 minutes.
screw machine= plus minus a couple thou.
cnc lathe= plus or minus a couple tenths.

bad quality shows with good quality side by side.
park a yugo next to a beemer. hell- park it next to a pinto and the quality of the pinto will shine. :)
Well Tom I know this as well as anyone. I,m 75 years old, owned my own shop for over 25 years, then took over a R&D machine shop for research & development for a medical blood testing machine producer for 22 more years my friend. But since CMM quality control , & CNN Machining, things are so much
better made than any time is the history of man. I remember when Japan products were junk. No more. Same with Kora not so much. Taiwan is
making very good stuff. If what has been said about QC control issues then the the parts that checked good should be good with that kind of thinking.

I,m not saying I have the answer any more than anyone else & that is why I ask the question. I know I do have the back ground in not only in manufacturing but R&D. DeVilblss I know has had some models copied by China company's. We all know about Chinese quality for the most part.
Most bad, but some very good. That is a whole other story all together. But many company's out side the US are owned & run by US management.
Many of those company's produce some very quality products. There are so many spray guns being produced today it is unthinkable. Going back
to DeVilblss they make some very high dollar guns. But also have gotten into there Finnish Line guns. I started to buy one. How good are they?
maybe someone can tell us. But I can,t see a company with a name they have built, would not produce junk even at a lower cost. Maybe I,m wrong?

Fly
 
I have a DeVilbiss Tekna Copper and it sprays great. The Iwata LPH400 Silver cap has been a go to clear coat gun for a long time. In fact whenever I am having trouble getting the clear to look right, I go back to the Iwata. I also use the Iwata for spraying SPI epoxy.

The truth is nearly any brand name gun will work, if in the hands of someone that knows how to adjust a spray gun.
One of the main differences is the speed at which you are comfortable spraying. For example, the Iwata LPH is really best for a slow steady hand and needs to be about 4" from the surface. Whereas a SATA requires more distance from the panel and a bit faster spraying speed. Pros seem to gravitate to the SATA cause it gets the job done quicker.

I would put the Tekna Copper somewhere in between the Iwata and Sata. It has a nice size fan and can be held 6-8" from the surface.

If you plan to do just one project and then sell the gun, a brand name gun will get you some money back whereas there is no demand for "used" cheap guns.
 
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Well, it is now come to my attention that the 3M Accuspray is no longer a cheap gun. Cannot find them for 99 anymore after another clip holding the spray head on broke. New design only use the new design 2.0 cups, which is confusing anyway since you think 2.0 as a orifice size of their spray heads. Cheapest new "pro" gun is 274 on amazon, 336 for a starter kit. Found 1.8 heads at Zoro for 32. Guess I see on monday because spraying Chemical Agent Resistant Coating thru any metal gun is going to kill it like you are using it for bedliner. I did find one source for 94.00 for the first rev of the gun, tried to order 4 and it said to let someone else get a deal too. Ended up getting billed from 8090.com
Well, just a little update on this new series. That 8090 gun got shipped somewhere 4 miles away somehow, so I did never get it. The new design not being a cheap gun anymore. WOW. Pro is there for a reason. I mean the atomization of this thing is somehow so much better than what I liked in their first gun. Got the kit since the fluid caps are like 32 each so it was 94 to get the 1.2 1.3 and 1.4 anyway, and yeah, I would really consider using it. The little keyed design of the connection is just the way to line it up, there is a nut on the front that locks it in place.. Figure we got this avalanche to spray some base clear on so we might give it a go. If you thought the first one was junk, maybe I can see why, but it was serviceable for a while. This thing is the real deal.
 
Well, just a little update on this new series. That 8090 gun got shipped somewhere 4 miles away somehow, so I did never get it. The new design not being a cheap gun anymore. WOW. Pro is there for a reason. I mean the atomization of this thing is somehow so much better than what I liked in their first gun. Got the kit since the fluid caps are like 32 each so it was 94 to get the 1.2 1.3 and 1.4 anyway, and yeah, I would really consider using it. The little keyed design of the connection is just the way to line it up, there is a nut on the front that locks it in place.. Figure we got this avalanche to spray some base clear on so we might give it a go. If you thought the first one was junk, maybe I can see why, but it was serviceable for a while. This thing is the real deal.
I watch several painters in Europe that got that gun from 3M to test. They give it glowing reviews.
 
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