Blowing it Apart - Then What?

[1970]

I know everyone has a favorite way to paint a restoration project. This is not collision work. Full restoration.
I would appreciate some feed back going about steps taken when it's time to apply the finish color base coat and clear.

Which way works for you when you paint panels, fenders, trunk, hood etc. ? Together? Apart?
Apart allows you to get behind the edges and access jams which is great BUT it presents a problem with assembly and I know some of you must have this figured out pretty good.

Do you blow it apart and paint the fenders, hoof, trunk, splash pan separate? I've seen segments on videos when they paint everything apart on stands but I never see the assembly process and how the painted trunk lid, doors, fenders, splash pans, are assembled and how to finish the whole car so that the fasteners are painted like the factory did after assembly. I want the fender, door and trunk bolts to look finished - not chipped at the end.
Would you assemble then touch up? There are bound to be areas scratched when adjusting and aligning the trunk, hood, doors and fenders back on after they are painted separately.

If you use a rotisserie do you paint them inside jam areas, assemble the car and then finish the outside? You still have to remove the hood to install the motor and trans so that becomes a problem too taking a chance on damaging the painted panels. What if any safeguards do you use during assembly so that a big woops doesn't ruin a perfect paint job. I heard about taping edges during assembly and that made sense...

I do plan on using a rotisserie for body work and priming but that's not definite.

What's your best system? Thank you in advance.

 

[dhutton01]

What car are you building? It makes a difference in the responses.

 

[1970]

1970 Dodge Dart

Thank you

 

[dhutton01]

I paint the bare shell on a rotisserie and all panels separately. I use a transmission jack with styrofoam on the pad to maneuver doors into position. I have this gizmo for my engine hoist to install hoods and decklids.

A few wraps of tape and a six point metric socket will protect bolt heads. Plug your threaded holes with tape before paint to keep the threads clean and make assembly easier.

 

[Raymond_B]

I paint the bare shell on a rotisserie and all panels separately. I use a transmission jack with styrofoam on the pad to maneuver doors into position. I have this gizmo for my engine hoist to install hoods and decklids.
View attachment 36598
A few wraps of tape and a six point metric socket will protect bolt heads. Plug your threaded holes with tape before paint to keep the threads clean and make assembly easier.

I've got that same "1 man hood lifter" took me a bit to trust it

 

[RosharonRooster]

Usually paint in pieces but the next one we are going to paint with the doors on.

 

[dhutton01]

Usually paint in pieces but the next one we are going to paint with the doors on.

On a rotisserie? I’ve never been brave enough to try that.

 

[Treeslayer]

I paint the bare shell on a rotisserie and all panels separately. I use a transmission jack with styrofoam on the pad to maneuver doors into position. I have this gizmo for my engine hoist to install hoods and decklids.
View attachment 36598
A few wraps of tape and a six point metric socket will protect bolt heads. Plug your threaded holes with tape before paint to keep the threads clean and make assembly easier.

iv just about hit the buy it now about twenty times on that thing. i prolly should have one, never any one around when im ready to remove or install.

 

[RosharonRooster]

On a rotisserie? I’ve never been brave enough to try that.

Lol probably on my home made body cart.

 

[ct71rr]

I paint the bare shell on a rotisserie and all panels separately. I use a transmission jack with styrofoam on the pad to maneuver doors into position. I have this gizmo for my engine hoist to install hoods and decklids.
View attachment 36598
A few wraps of tape and a six point metric socket will protect bolt heads. Plug your threaded holes with tape before paint to keep the threads clean and make assembly easier.

I just bought and used that hood lifter gizmo this past weekend. It worked great!

 

[Hesster]

I panel painted my TA Conversion Parts. Made some Bucks for the floppy Fascias, and built a filtered booth with a Explosion Proof Fan. I also sanded between some BC and CC's to get any airborne contamination out, and to get a high quality finish on Black BC/CC. Sanded the final wet flow CC dead flat with 1500/2000/3000/5000 and then endless Buffing with heavy to fine cut compounds to get wet glass.

 

[1970]

Thanks for the responses. The hood attachment is a good idea. I always struggle getting help from people you can trust to help.

The explosion proof fan was an important point for sure. Any suppliers come to mind?

I was thinking about screening in a large extension roof and porch i have next to a barn to keep the flow going and bugs out. It has a concrete floor. It seems to be a problem with air flow using filters? Where I am is more of a bug problem than dust but if that’s a bad idea just slap me around a bit.

 

[Hesster]

See attached on the fan and filter media. My biggest enemy was airborne contamination. Moving the air can make it worse of course. So I used 3' x 8' filter media in my 10'x10' enclosure, and it needs to be sealed up tight or the leaks just suck in particulates. And a vapor trap to eliminate water vapor when it is hot outside and or working the compressor hard.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7L2XRQZ?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_19&amp=&crid=3JOG7ZSD20DJ5&sprefix=explosion%2Bproof%2Bfan&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089R1MYRK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

 

[1970]

Usually paint in pieces but the next one we are going to paint with the doors on.

Did you paint the jams first then assemble the doors on the hinges?

 

[1970]

See attached on the fan and filter media. My biggest enemy was airborne contamination. Moving the air can make it worse of course. So I used 3' x 8' filter media in my 10'x10' enclosure, and it needs to be sealed up tight or the leaks just suck in particulates. And a vapor trap to eliminate water vapor when it is hot outside and or working the compressor hard.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7L2XRQZ?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_19&amp=&crid=3JOG7ZSD20DJ5&sprefix=explosion%2Bproof%2Bfan&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089R1MYRK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

TA looks great. Nice ride.
So you painted the car body and jams with no doors, hood and panels off? Then assembled?
How did you handle your situation with aligning the fenders, doors, trunk and having painted bolts that look nice with no adjustment scratches when aligning panels? Did you paint the bolts separately and use the over size socket mentioned previously for assembly?

Body shops replace fenders and doors painting them first so this has been resolved with proven methods I'm sure. You just don't see the assembly part on posted videos. It's all spraying.

Is it worse to suck contaminated air into the painted area than having natural air flow outside in a screened area with a roof?
Or would the fumes be too overwhelming without the airflow you think? Before painting booths people did paint outside on a prefect day and I would assume sanded out any bugs that landed on the paint.

Just getting an idea how critical the enclosed paint booth is. If that's a definite and worth the effort I'd do it for sure.....

 

[Hesster]

"So you painted the car body and jams with no doors, hood and panels off? Then assembled?"
Since this project was a kit (Panels - Hood, Fenders, Fascias, Scoop, Grill's), orig panels were removed, ane new one's fitted (shims and slots), painted, then assembled. So that left the Roof, Quarters, and Doors still on the vehicle. The Base vehicle's paint was in excellent condition so it was only buffed out, and did not need paint.

"How did you handle your situation with aligning the fenders, doors, trunk and having painted bolts that look nice with no adjustment scratches when aligning panels? Did you paint the bolts separately and use the over size socket mentioned previously for assembly?"
I used new Button Head Fasteners, and or painted some of the Bolts after Assy. Panel fitting is not easy, and a finesse operation. Fit, tweak, refit, re-tweak, etc. Fender to door first, then chase the remaining gaps/flushs. I taped off edges when final buffing, and during panel assembly back on the car.

"Body shops replace fenders and doors painting them first so this has been resolved with proven methods I'm sure. You just don't see the assembly part on posted videos. It's all spraying."
Yep. As I mentioned, you could pull off the Doors and Paint them first, then install, fit them to the Quarter & Rocker Panels, then the Fenders to the Doors.

"Is it worse to suck contaminated air into the painted area than having natural air flow outside in a screened area with a roof?"
Two options - NO airflow, or filtered air flow. Moving any air brings the rish of airborne contamination, but helps the paint flash off.

"Or would the fumes be too overwhelming without the airflow you think? Before painting booths people did paint outside on a prefect day and I would assume sanded out any bugs that landed on the paint."
If in a enclosed area w/o ventilation, throwing lot's of paint can make it so it is almost hard to see, and risk overspray which may mess up a wet coat of paint. But depending on what paint and color you are spraying, maybe you can sand out minor imperfections. Single stage solid color paints (typ Acrylic Urethane with Hardener and Thinner, no Clearcoat) are easier than BC/CC IMO, as you can sand every coat. But - there are multiple ways to mess up BC/CC, and ESP Black! - in each of the 3 BC's and the first CC. After that you can sand away on additional CC's. I DID sand my 2nd BC to get out any nibs and get it perfect for the final 3rd BC followed by the 1st CC. That is cause it was solid Black, but you can't do that on metallics. I you have a Pro Booth with Zero contamination, you can spray all the coats almost Back to Back.

"Just getting an idea how critical the enclosed paint booth is. If that's a definite and worth the effort I'd do it for sure....."
So do a trial and paint a part w/o a booth. I found I could NOT get my Barn clean enough no matter what, and it was worse with ANY air movement. Way too much crap in the paint. So I realized a Booth, filters, and fan were the way to go. It is almost a controlled environment. And, it is cheap to build - 2x4's, plastic sheeting, cheap filter media. Fan is the $$ item.

The hood in the last Pic - that is BEFORE wet sanding and buffing. I still WS and Buffed to get it perfect.

 

[1970]

"So you painted the car body and jams with no doors, hood and panels off? Then assembled?"
Since this project was a kit (Panels - Hood, Fenders, Fascias, Scoop, Grill's), orig panels were removed, ane new one's fitted (shims and slots), painted, then assembled. So that left the Roof, Quarters, and Doors still on the vehicle. The Base vehicle's paint was in excellent condition so it was only buffed out, and did not need paint.

"How did you handle your situation with aligning the fenders, doors, trunk and having painted bolts that look nice with no adjustment scratches when aligning panels? Did you paint the bolts separately and use the over size socket mentioned previously for assembly?"
I used new Button Head Fasteners, and or painted some of the Bolts after Assy. Panel fitting is not easy, and a finesse operation. Fit, tweak, refit, re-tweak, etc. Fender to door first, then chase the remaining gaps/flushs. I taped off edges when final buffing, and during panel assembly back on the car.

"Body shops replace fenders and doors painting them first so this has been resolved with proven methods I'm sure. You just don't see the assembly part on posted videos. It's all spraying."
Yep. As I mentioned, you could pull off the Doors and Paint them first, then install, fit them to the Quarter & Rocker Panels, then the Fenders to the Doors.

"Is it worse to suck contaminated air into the painted area than having natural air flow outside in a screened area with a roof?"
Two options - NO airflow, or filtered air flow. Moving any air brings the rish of airborne contamination, but helps the paint flash off.

"Or would the fumes be too overwhelming without the airflow you think? Before painting booths people did paint outside on a prefect day and I would assume sanded out any bugs that landed on the paint."
If in a enclosed area w/o ventilation, throwing lot's of paint can make it so it is almost hard to see, and risk overspray which may mess up a wet coat of paint. But depending on what paint and color you are spraying, maybe you can sand out minor imperfections. Single stage solid color paints (typ Acrylic Urethane with Hardener and Thinner, no Clearcoat) are easier than BC/CC IMO, as you can sand every coat. But - there are multiple ways to mess up BC/CC, and ESP Black! - in each of the 3 BC's and the first CC. After that you can sand away on additional CC's. I DID sand my 2nd BC to get out any nibs and get it perfect for the final 3rd BC followed by the 1st CC. That is cause it was solid Black, but you can't do that on metallics. I you have a Pro Booth with Zero contamination, you can spray all the coats almost Back to Back.

"Just getting an idea how critical the enclosed paint booth is. If that's a definite and worth the effort I'd do it for sure....."
So do a trial and paint a part w/o a booth. I found I could NOT get my Barn clean enough no matter what, and it was worse with ANY air movement. Way too much crap in the paint. So I realized a Booth, filters, and fan were the way to go. It is almost a controlled environment. And, it is cheap to build - 2x4's, plastic sheeting, cheap filter media. Fan is the $$ item.

The hood in the last Pic - that is BEFORE wet sanding and buffing. I still WS and Buffed to get it perfect.

Thanks for the help and input. What grit/method did you use to sand in between the coats?
I've seen another post from someone who painted the same lime green as myself. He said you can clear over the single stage as well to give a deep look. The lime color I am using has no metallic.

 

[Hesster]

What grit/method did you use to sand in between the coats? - 800 or 1000, anything finer and the next coat won't "bite" and may cause adhesion issues.
Again it is not recommended to sand a Base Coat, but you CAN if it is a solid color, and that helps get a very smooth and nib free surface for the next Coat. My method was (2) coats color, sand, 1 coat color BC followed immediately by 1 coat clear, sand, then 1-2 coats Clear. Then cut and buff. It is a process, and involves timing and correct prep - I used a chart to document my steps and timing - removed any guess work and potential to mess up.

Also I used a good Filter and Dessicant set-up, and a good Iwata LP400 gun. Ya want a clean, cool, and dry air supply, w/o water vapor which will contaminate the paint. That can happen on a real hot day and working the compressor hard, depending on equpment.

You can clear over some single stage paints, but it may not yield the glossy results expected, and the clear may even look "cloudy" or "milkey". Of course this may also depend on the paint type. A lesson I learned was I painted my Trans Am Black with Single stage, and tried clearing over it, and it was cloudy. So I had to sand that off, recoat the Black, and then cut and buff. It came out like glass if you cut and buff it properly. And SS is far more easier to paint IMO simply because there are fewer steps to have things go wrong. I had to use BC/CC on my TA Conversion because the factory paint is BC/CC, otherwise I would have used SS, or painted the entire car with SS if the original paint was not good enough to match up to fresh paint.

 

[1970]

What grit/method did you use to sand in between the coats? - 800 or 1000, anything finer and the next coat won't "bite" and may cause adhesion issues.
Again it is not recommended to sand a Base Coat, but you CAN if it is a solid color, and that helps get a very smooth and nib free surface for the next Coat. My method was (2) coats color, sand, 1 coat color BC followed immediately by 1 coat clear, sand, then 1-2 coats Clear. Then cut and buff. It is a process, and involves timing and correct prep - I used a chart to document my steps and timing - removed any guess work and potential to mess up.

Also I used a good Filter and Dessicant set-up, and a good Iwata LP400 gun. Ya want a clean, cool, and dry air supply, w/o water vapor which will contaminate the paint. That can happen on a real hot day and working the compressor hard, depending on equpment.

You can clear over some single stage paints, but it may not yield the glossy results expected, and the clear may even look "cloudy" or "milkey". Of course this may also depend on the paint type. A lesson I learned was I painted my Trans Am Black with Single stage, and tried clearing over it, and it was cloudy. So I had to sand that off, recoat the Black, and then cut and buff. It came out like glass if you cut and buff it properly. And SS is far more easier to paint IMO simply because there are fewer steps to have things go wrong. I had to use BC/CC on my TA Conversion because the factory paint is BC/CC, otherwise I would have used SS, or painted the entire car with SS if the original paint was not good enough to match up to fresh paint.

Thanks for the insight. Your efforts paid off for sure. Looks great.
I've heard the LP400 mentioned so much. Are there different models is I were to look into one? Shopping for guns can be overwhelming.
There's a lot on youtube now about the 3M performance gun because they claim it can do it all without the long cleaning times - which I really don't mind. I don't have a collision shop that needs to manage time. So far I have only committed to a primer gun for the Slick Sand.

What are your go to guns for which stages?

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Search LPH400 here. You'll find plenty of info on what size, etc.

Here is Google site search for LPH400

Google Search

You can use Google to search the site. It works better than the site search as it returns results for short words where the site search doesn't.

Use this format in Google.
site:spiuserforum.com your keywords here

If you spend a few hours searching and reading youll find detailed answers to nearly all the questions you may have.

I'll add this. A solid color looks better in single stage. Clearing a solid defeats the purpose IMO. If you plan to do that go with a base/clear. Base/Clear is going to be easier to repair but it will look a bit more plastic than a SS. The difference between the two is fairly subtle. Not to dramatic really. Especially with a color like lime.

BC/CC is preferable for someone new to this simply because of the repairability factor.