Universal issues, new to SPI

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Gnome

Promoted Users
I'm working on a pretty detailed bike job. First time using TropicalGlitz, which they recommend SPI so I gave the UC a go.

My first issue came up with their TDS sheets. Spray on heavy only. I've never heard of any clear doing that, but they made it, so they know best, so against my better judgment I sprayed heavy. It was a mess. The UC destroyed the urathane pinstriping. Re lined and re cleared, did 2 drop coats, then medium, then heavy, and had no issues with the lines.

However, that leads into my second issue. This clear runs more than David Goggins. You can say it's user error all you like, any real painter knows some clears are more prone to it than others. I felt 1:1 waa just way too thin for this clear. So I lessoned the activator with better results, but still ran like mad. Truthfully, I've never seen a clear do this. I've had a run here and there sure. But this is a 360 line all around the tins with more than a dozen runs 2-3 inches in length. It looks like I poured it straight from the can onto the tins. I have $80/gal clears that smoke this stuff in shooting, laying, and gloss finish without a buff.

I haven't heard a single bad thing about this clear, so that leads me to believe I'm doing something wrong. But after 3 goes, and 2 other painters coming to look. None of us can figure out what the deal is, other than the clear is junk. I already know their TDS is bad, so I'm done looking to that for answers. I've bought a gallon im not willing to waste, but at this point I don't know what else to do. I'm really hoping there's something im missing here.

I've used
Iwata LPH80 1.2
Aeropro LVLP 1.3
28 psi
Consistent 75 degrees.
Air Dry and fan shut off with in a minute.
Base/intercoat/reducers is TropicalGlitz
I've haven't used any reducer in the SPI clear.

Thank you!
 
First of all, if you have altered the activator ratio of the clear, you've ruined it and it will likely have to come off. The tech manual does not say "spray heavy," it says spray it like you want it to look. There are a lot of reasons you could be getting runs, but your misreading of the tech manual is probably the biggest reason for your problems. Some people benefit by increasing air pressure and reducing Universal by 5%, this can help it spray like more traditional lower solids clears. I've sprayed a lot of clears and I do not think Universal is more prone to run than other high solids clears. If anything, it's only difference is that it's faster drying due to it's intended use by hobbyists. Maybe you are used to low solids clears and this true high solids clear is just something you haven't experienced before.
 
crashtech said:
First of all, if you have altered the activator ratio of the clear, you've ruined it and it will likely have to come off. The tech manual does not say "spray heavy," it says spray it like you want it to look. There are a lot of reasons you could be getting runs, but your misreading of the tech manual is probably the biggest reason for your problems. Some people benefit by increasing air pressure and reducing Universal by 5%, this can help it spray like more traditional lower solids clears. I've sprayed a lot of clears and I do not think Universal is more prone to run than other high solids clears. If anything, it's only difference is that it's faster drying due to it's intended use by hobbyists. Maybe you are used to low solids clears and this true high solids clear is just something you haven't experienced before.
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First. It absolutely says to spray heavy. It says specifically to spray wet. Wet and heavy mean the same thing. Light/dust, medium is medium, wet is heavy. If you can physically see your clear soak, it's heavy. I'm not misreading anything. I've worked with a lot of clears, that verbage has been identical in with every one.

Second. I didn't start by adjusting the activator ratio. I only did that after exausting other options. And considering it sprayed better after I did, well that speaks for itself. I do high end custom work, adjusting ratios is common practice.

Where are you getting faster drying? The 3-8 minute flash with medium is normal. The cure time is slower than most air dry clears. I let them sit 24 hours regardless. But there's nothing fast about it. It did cure very well though, even with the lessoned activator.

Reducing would have made this worse, and 28 psi is plenty high enough for any high solids. Which lies in the problem, this doesn't shoot at all like a high solids clear. It shoots like water. I also can't find the solids count listed anywhere, which is typical of low quality clears. So that leads me to believe it's low quality pretending to be a high end.
 
Gnome said:
You can say it's user error all you like, any real painter knows some clears are more prone to it than others. I felt 1:1 waa just way too thin for this clear. So I lessoned the activator with better results,
Click to expand...
Well my friend you have a ways to go because first off any real painter knows you don't alter the ratios that the manufacturer states the clear must be mixed at. Doing so is ruining the product as Crash stated above. This aint the 60's and we aint shooting lacquer. And no Clears are not prone to run more than others. It's just that different clears require different setups. air pressure and fluid control. One setup does not equate to shooting all clear. Overlap also comes into play.

Second if you read the Tech Manual this clear requires a 1.4 tip. There is an exceptions to that, the SATA RP, otherwise you need a bigger tip. I would guess with the smaller tips you are trying to get it to flow as you are spraying like you would a low solids clear. This is not that. Read the Tech Manual for hints as well.
A true high solids clear needs air. I have no idea of your air piping etc so all I can offer is this, turn up your air pressure. 7-10 PSI. Even to the point is seems excessive. It will spray completely different when it has the air pressure it needs.

Watch your overlap. With this clear you want less fluid more overlap. 75% is what I've found to be ideal. Less fluid, more overlap, crank up the air pressure. You do that, you will find that UV sprays very very nice. And easy.
 
I think your eyes might be bad ;) Tech manual only says 'spray first coat wet' and 'spray the first coat the way you want it to look the next day, do not spray a tack/dust/drop coat. It doesn't say spray heavy.

I think you're just spraying it on way too heavy. Don't spray with your needle all the way open, and increase your air pressure. If I can spray it with minimal runs as a front yard hack then you can too.
 
Gnome said:
$80/gal clears that smoke this stuff in shooting, laying, and gloss finish
Click to expand...
You know why that is right? I suspect that you and your friends have only sprayed junk clears. Low solids any monkey can spray it. Medium solids is a little tougher. High solids is what separates the men from the boys. Universal is a true high solids clear. There aren't many of them on the market and they spray different than $80 gallon low solid junk.
 
I'm not posting this as any sort of excellence type look at me. Just an example of what it looks like proper out of the gun This was 6 coats back to back. As it came out of the gun. If I took a pic at 3 coats it would have looked even better. It was nearly perfect at 3.
20230618_182742.jpg
 
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Chris_Hamilton said:
Well my friend you have a ways to go because first off any real painter knows you don't alter the ratios that the manufacturer states the clear must be mixed at. Doing so is ruining the product as Crash stated above. This aint the 60's and we aint shooting lacquer. And no Clears are not prone to run more than others. It's just that different clears require different setups. air pressure and fluid control. One setup does not equate to shooting all clear. Overlap also comes into play.

Second if you read the Tech Manual this clear requires a 1.4 tip. There is an exceptions to that, the SATA RP, otherwise you need a bigger tip. I would guess with the smaller tips you are trying to get it to flow as you are spraying like you would a low solids clear. This is not that. Read the Tech Manual for hints as well.
A true high solids clear needs air. I have no idea of your air piping etc so all I can offer is this, turn up your air pressure. 7-10 PSI. Even to the point is seems excessive. It will spray completely different when it has the air pressure it needs.

Watch your overlap. With this clear you want less fluid more overlap. 75% is what I've found to be ideal. Less fluid, more overlap, crank up the air pressure. You do that, you will find that UV sprays very very nice. And easy.
Click to expand...
I'll turn up the pressure and see. The overlap makes sense.

As for the tip size, there is no significant difference between shooting through a 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4. If the mix is right, the clear will shoot fine. There are guys who swear by one or another, but those are the same guys that swear they can taste chocolate in a cigar. It's provably false and all preference. A hint to show you, is the exceptions. If theres an exception for one, then its not set in stone. There's no way around that.

As for adjusting ratios. It may be true to stick to them for collision and repair work. But not in custom work. You're always adjusting to meet your needs. No 2 jobs are the same. Collision and custom are 2 completely different monsters that require different skill sets. I've shot more clear with adjusted ratios that I've shot following the sheet. There are no rules to paint.
 
If you think you can get away with playing backyard chemist on activator ratios, I think that you're either living a charmed life, or you simply lack experience. I'm guessing the latter.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
You know why that is right? I suspect that you and your friends have only sprayed junk clears. Low solids any monkey can spray it. Medium solids is a little tougher. High solids is what separates the men from the boys. Universal is a true high solids clear. There aren't many of them on the market and they spray different than $80 gallon low solid junk.
Click to expand...
You suspect wrong. There are a ton of clears claiming to be high solids, that aren't. I suspect this is one of them. A big factor in that assumption is how thin it is. High solids clears are thick. This stuff is like water. I suspect you haven't actually shot a legit clear. You think you have, but you've been scammed. I'm not trying to be a jerk with that. There's a ton of companies putting high end labels on low end products. The fact the solids count isn't posted is a huge red flag.
 
crashtech said:
If you think you can get away with playing backyard chemist on activator ratios, I think that you're either living a charmed life, or you simply lack experience. I'm guessing the latter.
Click to expand...
Apparently ive been getting away with it for many years. Don't know what to tell you.
 
Gnome said:
As for adjusting ratios. It may be true to stick to them for collision and repair work. But not in custom work. You're always adjusting to meet your needs. No 2 jobs are the same. Collision and custom are 2 completely different monsters that require different skill sets. I've shot more clear with adjusted ratios that I've shot following the sheet. There are no rules to paint.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense in regards to clear and activation. Yes with adjusting colors when mixing either your base or single stage, how much pearl or candy you use, but you don't adjust activation ratios. What you are saying is nonsense.
Gnome said:
As for the tip size, there is no significant difference between shooting through a 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4
Click to expand...
Again you are wrong. For one spray each tip on the wall, measure the fan pattern of each. If they all are the same why do various guns come in different tip sizes? Why is one gun known as a hoser, versus another gun that is known as slow? Because of the size of the tip. If they are all the same spray some poly primer with your 1.2 tip gun. Then spray with what it needs a 2.5 tip. Notice the difference?
Gnome said:
You suspect wrong. There are a ton of clears claiming to be high solids, that aren't. I suspect this is one of them. A big factor in that assumption is how thin it is. High solids clears are thick. This stuff is like water. I suspect you haven't actually shot a legit clear. You think you have, but you've been scammed. I'm not trying to be a jerk with that. There's a ton of companies putting high end labels on low end products. The fact the solids count isn't posted is a huge red flag.
Click to expand...
Dude you need to stop talking cause you are embarrassing yourself. You talk like so many young guys I've worked with and helped or tried to help them. You don't even realize some of the stuff you are saying shows your lack of knowledge and experience. The solids remark is one. Saying custom painters mix activator ratios is another. Ask HOK Kosmoski if that is true.

If you have all this knowledge how come you can't spray Universal? I can. Why can't you. Seems you should be able to seeing you know it all.
Gnome said:
Apparently ive been getting away with it for many years. Don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...
If you have you do not come across as such. I have been doing this for a living since I was 18. I'm 50 now and I'm still learning. Just friendly advice, you should humble yourself and admit to yourself, you don't know anything close to what you think you do. If you can do that you will start improving, if not you will never really get any better. That is a fact. That is not a put down. I had someone say that to me once.
 
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Gnome said:
First. It absolutely says to spray heavy. It says specifically to spray wet. Wet and heavy mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
It says quote, " First coat must be sprayed how you want the clear to look the next day, therefore never spray a tack dust drop coat."

Nowhere does it say to spray it heavy or wet. That is how you interpreted it. Even if it did say spray it wet it would not be incorrect. If you have sprayed any urethane or polyurethane clear you know that if you spray a tack coat/dustcoat whatever for your first coat, you lock in that texture throughout. Low solids stuff less so, but high solids clears don't move and flow the same. Tack coats are a thing from long ago when spraying acrylic enamel. Pretty much any modern 2K urethane or polyurethane clear you need to spray the first coat as you want it to look. Wet does not equate to runs either. Wet means you are fully wetting the panel with product. Runs mean you are overwetting the panel. If you want to spray something slick, you have to spray wet.
 
Get a gun or needle nozzle set to fit one of your guns that is a 1.4. Up your air pressure, reduce your fluid, practice on something till you find the right amount of fluid. Watch the clear as you are spraying. Proper wet coat is watching it "fill in" and no more. You adjust your speed and overlap to achieve that "fill in". Clear is easier to spray with more overlap. 75% is a good amount with most clears today. Going past the clear "filling in" when making a pass will make it or any clear run.
 
One last thing. Runs come from spraying too heavy, but more often they come from improper overlap discipline. Meaning where you get a run you are going too tight on your overlap. Essentially double coating an area. When you are spraying this clear wet as you have to to get it slick, you have to be robotic with your overlap.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
It says quote, " First coat must be sprayed how you want the clear to look the next day, therefore never spray a tack dust drop coat."

Nowhere does it say to spray it heavy or wet. That is how you interpreted it. Even if it did say spray it wet it would not be incorrect. If you have sprayed any urethane or polyurethane clear you know that if you spray a tack coat/dustcoat whatever for your first coat, you lock in that texture throughout. Low solids stuff less so, but high solids clears don't move and flow the same. Tack coats are a thing from long ago when spraying acrylic enamel. Pretty much any modern 2K urethane or polyurethane clear you need to spray the first coat as you want it to look. Wet does not equate to runs either. Wet means you are fully wetting the panel with product. Runs mean you are overwetting the panel. If you want to spray something slick, you have to spray wet.
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Literally under the spraying section.

"Apply the first coat wet, then apply the second coat wet"

You're also saying to have to apply a tack coat, I agree completely. However the sheet says to never apply a tack coat. So you're contradicting yourself. You're proving my point.

I came in here to ask a question, stated I think I am doing something wrong. I literally stated I've never heard a bad thing about this clear. Instead of help, I just got attacked, and my credentials insulted over and over. This community is as toxic as the product you support. I don't care to prove anything to you. You wanna think I'm new, fine. It shouldn't matter. If SPI was so great, then my issue should have been easy to resolve. I was expecting to get an answer and think, "oh man I'm dumb, how did I miss that" But instead I'm hit with BS. So that leads me to further think SPI is trash because none of you can give me an answer other than you personally don't like my techniques. Well to bad, my techniques have successfully sprayed a ton of products and built me a very nice customer base that have kept my lights on. Not to mention, I followed the sheet originally, and it made no difference. So the product is still an issue. I adjust my techniques constantly to meet the needs of whatever I'm doing. If I need to raise the pressure, doesn't hurt to try. If I need to add or remove something to compensate for my conditions, no problem. I want a beautiful product. I don't care how I get there.
 
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Gnome said:
I'm working on a pretty detailed bike job. First time using TropicalGlitz, which they recommend SPI so I gave the UC a go.

My first issue came up with their TDS sheets. Spray on heavy only. I've never heard of any clear doing that, but they made it, so they know best, so against my better judgment I sprayed heavy. It was a mess. The UC destroyed the urathane pinstriping. Re lined and re cleared, did 2 drop coats, then medium, then heavy, and had no issues with the lines.

However, that leads into my second issue. This clear runs more than David Goggins. You can say it's user error all you like, any real painter knows some clears are more prone to it than others. I felt 1:1 waa just way too thin for this clear. So I lessoned the activator with better results, but still ran like mad. Truthfully, I've never seen a clear do this. I've had a run here and there sure. But this is a 360 line all around the tins with more than a dozen runs 2-3 inches in length. It looks like I poured it straight from the can onto the tins. I have $80/gal clears that smoke this stuff in shooting, laying, and gloss finish without a buff.

I haven't heard a single bad thing about this clear, so that leads me to believe I'm doing something wrong. But after 3 goes, and 2 other painters coming to look. None of us can figure out what the deal is, other than the clear is junk. I already know their TDS is bad, so I'm done looking to that for answers. I've bought a gallon im not willing to waste, but at this point I don't know what else to do. I'm really hoping there's something im missing here.

I've used
Iwata LPH80 1.2
Aeropro LVLP 1.3
28 psi
Consistent 75 degrees.
Air Dry and fan shut off with in a minute.
Base/intercoat/reducers is TropicalGlitz
I've haven't used any reducer in the SPI clear.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

1) Where did you purchase the SPI Universal Clear?

2) When did you purchase the SPI Universal Clear?
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
That makes no sense in regards to clear and activation. Yes with adjusting colors when mixing either your base or single stage, how much pearl or candy you use, but you don't adjust activation ratios. What you are saying is nonsense.

Again you are wrong. For one spray each tip on the wall, measure the fan pattern of each. If they all are the same why do various guns come in different tip sizes? Why is one gun known as a hoser, versus another gun that is known as slow? Because of the size of the tip. If they are all the same spray some poly primer with your 1.2 tip gun. Then spray with what it needs a 2.5 tip. Notice the difference?

Dude you need to stop talking cause you are embarrassing yourself. You talk like so many young guys I've worked with and helped or tried to help them. You don't even realize some of the stuff you are saying shows your lack of knowledge and experience. The solids remark is one. Saying custom painters mix activator ratios is another. Ask HOK Kosmoski if that is true.

If you have all this knowledge how come you can't spray Universal? I can. Why can't you. Seems you should be able to seeing you know it all.

If you have you do not come across as such. I have been doing this for a living since I was 18. I'm 50 now and I'm still learning. Just friendly advice, you should humble yourself and admit to yourself, you don't know anything close to what you think you do. If you can do that you will start improving, if not you will never really get any better. That is a fact. That is not a put down. I had someone say that to me once.
Click to expand...
I came on here to ask a question. I specifically stated I thought I was doing something wrong
MJM said:
1) Where did you purchase the SPI Universal Clear?

2) When did you purchase the SPI Universal Clear?
Click to expand...
TropicalGlitz, quart size originally which is what I sprayed. Then a gallon from the same place
About a week ago.
 
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