Universal issues, new to SPI

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Gnome said:
I'm working on a pretty detailed bike job. First time using TropicalGlitz, which they recommend SPI so I gave the UC a go.

My first issue came up with their TDS sheets. Spray on heavy only. I've never heard of any clear doing that, but they made it, so they know best, so against my better judgment I sprayed heavy. It was a mess. The UC destroyed the urathane pinstriping. Re lined and re cleared, did 2 drop coats, then medium, then heavy, and had no issues with the lines.

However, that leads into my second issue. This clear runs more than David Goggins. You can say it's user error all you like, any real painter knows some clears are more prone to it than others. I felt 1:1 waa just way too thin for this clear. So I lessoned the activator with better results, but still ran like mad. Truthfully, I've never seen a clear do this. I've had a run here and there sure. But this is a 360 line all around the tins with more than a dozen runs 2-3 inches in length. It looks like I poured it straight from the can onto the tins. I have $80/gal clears that smoke this stuff in shooting, laying, and gloss finish without a buff.

I haven't heard a single bad thing about this clear, so that leads me to believe I'm doing something wrong. But after 3 goes, and 2 other painters coming to look. None of us can figure out what the deal is, other than the clear is junk. I already know their TDS is bad, so I'm done looking to that for answers. I've bought a gallon im not willing to waste, but at this point I don't know what else to do. I'm really hoping there's something im missing here.

I've used
Iwata LPH80 1.2
Aeropro LVLP 1.3
28 psi
Consistent 75 degrees.
Air Dry and fan shut off with in a minute.
Base/intercoat/reducers is TropicalGlitz
I've haven't used any reducer in the SPI clear.

Thank you!
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The one thing not mentioned yet is that using U/C for the first time on a tank and fenders is very difficult, I did the same, and got lots of runs. My next project was a complete car body, and it came out perfect. I think it was over 6 months after that that I did another tank and fenders with the U/C and it came out perfect. My gun and air set up was the same on all, it's just that I figured my spray speeds and overlaps needed to be less on the small parts then what I was doing at first. Been painting for 46 years, everything from busses to door knobs. I use mostly the SPI Production clear and can't remember when I last got a run. LPH400 1.4 for everything.
 
I will say that I had the same issues when I first started spraying SPI clears. I had sprayed countless amount of different clears for years with no issues, but I would get runs everywhere with SPI. I could not figure it out. I became very frustrated almost switched back. Since I had been painting for years with no issues I thought everything was good on my end and that it must be an issue with SPI clears. Long story short it was all user error. Over the years I had gotten used to spraying lower solids clears that you could just hammer down and not run. This is not the case with SPI. With the help of Barry and this forum I found out that not only was my gun not adjusted properly, but I was not using proper techniques either. Listen to these guys. They will steer you in the right direction.
 
jcpettit said:
I will say that I had the same issues when I first started spraying SPI clears. I had sprayed countless amount of different clears for years with no issues, but I would get runs everywhere with SPI. I could not figure it out. I became very frustrated almost switched back. Since I had been painting for years with no issues I thought everything was good on my end and that it must be an issue with SPI clears. Long story short it was all user error. Over the years I had gotten used to spraying lower solids clears that you could just hammer down and not run. This is not the case with SPI. With the help of Barry and this forum I found out that not only was my gun not adjusted properly, but I was not using proper techniques either. Listen to these guys. They will steer you in the right direction.
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I said from the beginning, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

However, there's been very minimal advise given. I'm sure these guys are all experts, I'm not doubting that. But being told I must be used to low end clears is a cheap cop out for someone who's covering for their own lack of experience. Especially, when that same person has no idea what the tech sheet actually says. You seem like you were in a similar situation, and if I were to continue using SPI, I'm sure you'd be shown to be right. However I don't have time for playing games or maybes. I need results now, and I haven't seen anything special about SPI to warrent the headache. There's a ton of other options that will give the same result. I've already switched clears and sprayed panels and am very happy with the results.

I do appreciate your advise. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the other nonsense I've seen in this forum.
 
Gnome said:
I said from the beginning, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

However, there's been very minimal advise given. I'm sure these guys are all experts, I'm not doubting that. But being told I must be used to low end clears is a cheap cop out for someone who's covering for their own lack of experience. Especially, when that same person has no idea what the tech sheet actually says. You seem like you were in a similar situation, and if I were to continue using SPI, I'm sure you'd be shown to be right. However I don't have time for playing games or maybes. I need results now, and I haven't seen anything special about SPI to warrent the headache. There's a ton of other options that will give the same result. I've already switched clears and sprayed panels and am very happy with the results.

I do appreciate your advise. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the other nonsense I've seen in this forum.
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The smaller the part, the more I turn my trigger screw. Less product / more air, I can then spray close and slow like I do on large panels, without the runs. The size of the item, tends to change the speed that I am moving the gun even though it feels like I am moving the same as any other part. The other issue that you may have on the smaller parts is that the base is also much heavier for the same gun speed reasons. This can change the flash time of the clear enough to also be a problem.
 
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See, thats big difference from what I do. My guns are set, and rarely change. Instead of changing the settings, I use a smaller gun. I only go above 1.2 for clear, flake, or primer. Most of my work is done with .8 to 1.2, and a lot of airbrushing at .5 or .35. So i just swap guns. It could be the cheapness of my larger guns, but they don't dial in well. I can get a good wet flow, and a drop coat, but there isn't much inbetween. My money guns are all minis and airbrushes. I use amazon cheap for wet flake and primer. And an Aeropro for clear.
 
Gnome said:
However, there's been very minimal advise given.
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Well I have given you all the advise I know to give in order to spray it. Plenty of other people I have helped on this forum with that advice. It should make sense to you being you have sprayed.

Refer to my post here http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/universal-issues-new-to-spi.10237/post-125392


Gnome said:
See, thats big difference from what I do. My guns are set, and rarely change. Instead of changing the settings, I use a smaller gun. I only go above 1.2 for clear, flake, or primer. Most of my work is done with .8 to 1.2, and a lot of airbrushing at .5 or .35. So i just swap guns. It could be the cheapness of my larger guns, but they don't dial in well. I can get a good wet flow, and a drop coat, but there isn't much inbetween. My money guns are all minis and airbrushes. I use amazon cheap for wet flake and primer. And an Aeropro for clear.
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Sounds like you need a decent clear gun. I like the Sata RP's.


Gnome said:
I do appreciate your advise. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the other nonsense I've seen in this forum.
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The only nonsense is the stuff you are spouting. If you read JC's post again he's saying the same thing I am.

I'm done helping. Good luck. Maybe another clear is the best choice for you.
 
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orange peel is fluid control
runs are air pressure control.

how good you are means nothing when changing to high solids. whole new animal. up your air 5 lbs and back off just a little. if your gonna run it run it to the ground. a sag is flow hitting a dry spot.
 
Gnome, just keep practicing using SPI UC. With your professional expertise, you'll get past the learning curve pretty quickly. It took me almost a year before I could lay down beautiful coats of SPI epoxy. Not patting myself on the back but, I have to tell Chip Foose at least weekly I won't come work for him to be his dedicated epoxy spray guy. That's how good I spray epoxy.
 
I had trouble the first time I sprayed UC, I had runs and more runs, with a phone call to Barry my gun adjustments were made and I did better. I still have to adjust my gun every time I switch from Euro to UC .
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
It says quote, " First coat must be sprayed how you want the clear to look the next day, therefore never spray a tack dust drop coat."

Nowhere does it say to spray it heavy or wet. That is how you interpreted it. Even if it did say spray it wet it would not be incorrect. If you have sprayed any urethane or polyurethane clear you know that if you spray a tack coat/dustcoat whatever for your first coat, you lock in that texture throughout. Low solids stuff less so, but high solids clears don't move and flow the same. Tack coats are a thing from long ago when spraying acrylic enamel. Pretty much any modern 2K urethane or polyurethane clear you need to spray the first coat as you want it to look. Wet does not equate to runs either. Wet means you are fully wetting the panel with product. Runs mean you are overwetting the panel. If you want to spray something slick, you have to spray wet.
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I does say spray it wet. I said that in my post, quoted it directly.
 
I think everybody needs to stop with the “I suspects” and assumptions about somebody they’ve never met or never knew.
 
Weird. The first few times sprayed UC it went down great. Complete cars. No runs....smooth finish.

Then I started to read too much on the internet and it started to be run city for me.
 
Gnome said:
I came on here to ask a question. I specifically stated I thought I was doing something wrong

TropicalGlitz, quart size originally which is what I sprayed. Then a gallon from the same place
About a week ago.
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Have you attended a workshop at TropicalGlitz? If not, then get with them and get the schedule. Can show technic from start to finish.
Also, I have some customers that can pick up using Universal quickly, others I have worked with for months before they stoped, listened and slowed down and practiced with the clear. For painters using it the first time, I tell them to spray spare parts or something not essential
Check the gun adjustments in the back of the tech book for starting recommendations, yes tips do make a difference the same as fluid and pressure adjustments.
Dont give up and try again
 
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