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Flip flop color question

#1
I'm getting ready to do a two tone - flip flop paint scheme. I'll be using flip flop color RP changing pearls from the Kustom Shop mixed into SPI UV clear over SPI black base coat.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/kshift.aspx

The upper part will be orange to green the lower part green to gold.

My question here is: What happens when or if I overspray the clears with the two different pearls mixed in? say ....like in the jambs. Will all the flip flp colors just muddle to brown? will all 3-4 colors flip flop where I overspray? will the last colors sprayed cover the others?

I've been thinking about this for weeks. I have no answer. I hope someone does.

I know it's a weird scenario

Mark
 
#4
Hey Yes. Removing the striker is a great idea. I've never seen a job done like this before. I guess my main concern was wondering how crucial it would be to mask. It sounds like I should treat it like two completely different colors. I was trying to avoid a hard clear line where the two flip flop colors meet and wondered what the overlap or blend of the two would look like. I also wonder what color sanding may do to the flip flop pearls in the clear. Will I cut into them and dull the pearls, or leave blank spots if I go to 400 and flatten? I was going to add a few more coats of just " clear " clear over the top
 
#5
You should not have a clear line. You should not use a clearcoat as your binder for a job like ths. You need clear basecoat or intercoat clear. Once your color is all on then do your clearcoat.
 
#6
Oh, I would think that the vehicle for the pearls should be SPI Intercoat. After they are applied you may modify the masking to put urethane clear on the whole thing. Before clearing, some techs will put a couple coats of intercoat along the two tone line and then sand it a bit with some fine paper, which helps smooth the line and makes the clear less likely to catch on it and run.

EDIT: I didn't see Jim's post, so I guess I am repeating some of what he wrote!
 
#7
How did this turn out? You got any pics? Some of the chameleon paint colors can be mixed successfully. Others cannot (they will muddy together as you said). The flake youve linked to are equivalent to HOK KPF (kameleon pearl flake). These are different than the commonly seen KF colors. Ive never heard of anyone blending/mixing these pearls. I remember seeing Kosmoski paint a camaro, and he mixed chameleion colors. I think it was, KF02 and KF08. But ofcourse those are different pearls than your using.

Im gonna make an educated guess and say layering your gold to green, and orange to green will turn out ok. Generally, a pearl manuf will list the two colors of a color change pearl a certain way. The face, and the flop. So when you hold a color right up in front of your face, looking directly at it, your color will be the first color listed. In this case Gold, and Orange. Then the second color is the flop. Take that panel your holding infront of your face, and tilt the top of it away from you about 60deg or so. The color you see there is the 2nd color listed in its name. In this case, green and green. So worst case scenario, you will have gold mixing or competing with orange at face angles. And I dont think that will be to nasty of a fight. Probably will look good.
The green, of the gold to green is more like an 'aqua' at a steep flop angle. And the green, of the orange to green, is more like a lime. So those should compliment each other aswell.

With that said, if you are directly mixing these colors, then it gets tricky and I have no idea. For example, mixing a red, blue, and green pearl in the right proportions will give you a white pearl. And mixing red and green form yellow.

(I noticed Kustomshop lists their 'green to gold' RP53 backwards. This may be a pearl im unfamiliar with. But I doubt it.)
 
#8
when you go to mixing these colors, problem is doing a repair down the road. its already difficult enough if its just a straight chameleon color. I always warn against this stuff, and candy jobs, for an all over vehicle UNLESS it is a pure 100% trailer queen.

Just so if anyone else reads this and has ideas of their own. When done right you can do some amazing custom stuff with the paints we have today.

These colors are really meant to be an accent stripe or something of the nature, imo.

I too would like to see what you come up with though...dont get to do a lot of custom stuff these days.
 
#9
jeremyb;8891 said:
when you go to mixing these colors, problem is doing a repair down the road. its already difficult enough if its just a straight chameleon color. I always warn against this stuff, and candy jobs, for an all over vehicle UNLESS it is a pure 100% trailer queen.
Amen, brutha!

And if a custom pearl or chameleon is done, it's good to MEASURE what you do and record it, not only the amount of pearl but the number of coats, etc.
 
#11
jeremyb;8891 said:
when you go to mixing these colors, problem is doing a repair down the road. its already difficult enough if its just a straight chameleon color. I always warn against this stuff, and candy jobs, for an all over vehicle UNLESS it is a pure 100% trailer queen.
Nonsense. If your afraid to live, dont go outside. I would never discourage anyone from painting their ride how they want. Everything comes with a warning and a cost. Pearl white paint jobs are often just as difficult to repair, if not worse because you have the shade of the white base, and the pearl on top of that to get right (and people drive around with those today). With chameleon, your almost always over black. Only thing you have to get right is the concentration (how many coats). Its not that bad.
 
#12
if they want it pink, i'll paint it pink. most of the time they dont realize the cost involved with not only doing it the first time, but doing a repair down the road. all i'm saying. Yea there are new cars with white pearl, but when they get repaired 95% of the time it isn't coming directly out of their pocket...its coming from the insurance company. When they are spending thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars ( directly from their pocket) for this specific paint job, they need to know the negatives in and out along with the positive.......more times than not they end up not doing it. Only the ones that do are the ones where money is no object and it sits in a trailer or garage the whole time. In my experience, those are the only types that end up staying happy with what they've chosen.

My dodge is white gold pearl and candy apple red....i wish i would have never done it. It isn't a trialer queen...and it doesn't sit in a garage...It has road rash and some fading on the top surface (mainly due to the SEM candy that was used, JUNK) . It was my daily driver for about 3-4 years after being done. Needless to say, it needs to be resprayed and fixed back up from general wear and tear. Not an easy task for the way i've done it. It will get done one day.
 
#13
I guess I just dont understand the logic. Your saying that an old Dodge painted with pearls and candies, that has road rash, looks worse than a factory painted Dodge with road rash?

"it sits in a trailer or garage the whole time. In my experience, those are the only types that end up staying happy with what they've chosen." Ofcourse they are the only ones that are happy. They actually got the paint job they asked for, instead of being talked into 'any color as long as its black' (-Henry Ford).

Someone who spends a ton of money on a paint job, and then that paint job lives in a trailer or garage the whole time to me isnt living at all.
They are afraid to live.

Sorry to hear that about the SEM. Always thought they were good. But never tried their candies yet.
 
#14
327amc, you seem to be coming down a bit hard on jeremy, who imo is just stating the obvious. Your extreme purist point of view sounds like it is coming from someone who is not out in the real world doing repairs on these vehicles, burning through a customers limited supply of cash. I also think it's awfully judgmental of you to say someone who wants to protect their investment is afraid to live. Everyone is different.
 
#15



not talking about an "old dodge" . I know exactly what its like to have something like that and see it get beat up over the years, and if i didn't do this stuff myself, no way could i afford to have a job like that. Nor could i afford to have it repaired. And it is by no means an all out show-piece with thousands of hours of airbrushing done on it. I'd be sick of the way it is now if i had someone like sik go crazy all over it. And guess what, its my fault....because it isn't garage kept and it isn't trailered.

Everyone WANTS a crazy custom cool paint job.....its my job to give them what they want, but also let them know what the affects are going to be later on down the road. Im not saying i talk anyone out of doing these jobs...i'm not against these jobs i love them....not everyone can afford them. What i mean by that is, they might be able to afford the initial work done, but 2-3 years later and a few repairs later they are burnt on it and spent out.

Done enough to know how they feel about them years down the road...even after they are told what is going to happen.

2 ways of thinking i guess.....i'm not going to sell someone a bag of goods and later give them the bad news....they'll know upfront and if they choose to accept, then fine.

about the sem, i started seeing fading after about a year and a half. We did a honda accord about the same time with their candy brandywine that ended up turning pink within a year. Always used sikkens top shelf clear on them or HOK. I believe the accord was HOK. They didn't do anything about it, other than give us a few kits of their bedliner...and told us they fixed the problem with the candies and sent us more candy! stuff is still sitting on the shelf.
 
#16
I know you do killer work Jeremy. I been to your site. I just dont understand the mentality of not doing an expensive paint job based on the off chance that the owner might run into a shopping cart, or get hit by a train one day in the future.
I tell the person, 'I wont do any blends. You ever need a repair, its a panel job.' And for crash, I have color matched several hundred pearl whites. Its all about concentration (density). Ive matched door handles, trunk lids, bumper covers, mirrors, rear garnish, spoilers, etc. Using a different paint manuf than the vehicles were painted with. I was taught to do it using a machine. Xrite. When the machine would actually work right (probably the antique computer more than the xrite) it was a godsend to help match those difficult colors. But I knew I couldnt depend on that undependable machine. So I just learned about how it worked, and try to do that with my eyes. Just break down the process into sections. Base color. Pearl color. And concentration of pearl (texture is considered also but ideally shouldnt be a factor). And it worked out.

The issue I see with most people who say not to do all overs with Chameleons because they are hard to match, is really, they think its ugly. And I agree. Its tacky/ugly most all the time. But an off the shelf chameleon panel match is no harder than any other pearl job. People are just afraid of what they dont understand. Now, if the painted car in question has different chameleons mixed together, that makes it a major pain in the ass. But its not a pain because its a chameleon. Its a pain because your matching something that you dont know what it is, or the proportions of the mix. I personally wouldnt attempt that.
Another demographic that ive noticed really diminishes the value of chameleons paints (or special effect paints in general) is those with tons of artistic talent like Jeremy or JimC. I dont know whether it irks them that they have spent so many hours honing their craft, becoming masters, and someone (a talentless hack like myself) can just spray a vehicle with a new fangled sparkly paint and it look pretty damn kewl..?
It would be like when I took my compound bow to a bow shoot, and everyone there was shooting longbow. Those old fellers scowled at me something fierce. (Needless to say, I was at the wrong place.)

$8000 for a chameleon paint job.
Or $8000 for a wild and crazy custom air brushed paint job. If the issue was based on fix-ability, I would much rather fix the chameleon.

jeremyb;8891 said:
These colors are really meant to be an accent stripe or something of the nature, imo.
I obviously disagree. These pigments were actually intended to be used for anticounterfeiting purposes. Not for painting cars at all. And in no time, people started putting it in paint. I read my can, and it didnt say "Only intended as an accent stripe". I cant imagine what paint jobs would look like today, if everyone only did an 'accent stripe'.

That SEM fiasco is just simply unacceptable. WOW. I have one color chart from them. And just based on that, im gonna toss it. Not worth someone picking it out and me having to risk it, even if they have 'fixed it'. Ive had good luck with Alsa's candies anyways.
 
#17
the cost of a wild custom crazy paint job would be far more than just a chameleon job. the repairs would be far more also. The original op is talking about mixing both products and going a bit further than just a basic chameleon job.

lets just agree to disagree....

back to the sem subject, havent used anything but the trim black since this happened. only thing worth using in their arsenal imo. never had this type of problem with hok and rm-charizzma candies. Of course the only reason they didn't fund the re-do is because we used sikkens/hok clear over top. Gotta love the mfg warranty! lol.
 
#18
jeremyb;8961 said:
the cost of a wild custom crazy paint job would be far more than just a chameleon job. the repairs would be far more also.
lol figured you would notice that. Had to lower the price of the wild paint job for that example.

jeremyb;8961 said:
The original op is talking about mixing both products and going a bit further than just a basic chameleon job.
No. The original poster is talking about doing a 2 tone with 2 different chameleons. Not mixing them (intentionally).



jeremyb;8961 said:
back to the sem subject, havent used anything but the trim black since this happened. only thing worth using in their arsenal imo. never had this type of problem with hok and rm-charizzma candies. Of course the only reason they didn't fund the re-do is because we used sikkens/hok clear over top. Gotta love the mfg warranty! lol.
I was wrong on the SEM. Went through my book and had the RM chips instead. Thought it was SEM.
 
#19
Hey guys, sorry I'm late to getting back into the game here.

Quite a discussion I missed!

I've answered my flip flop questions and happy with the results. I changed the original scheme a bit. I showed the van last weekend and people literally fell off thier rockers. lots of oooohs and ahhhhhs. I've created 20 or more You Tube videos on the steps of painting process in case anyone is interested. It fought me.

Here's peek at what she looks like almost finished........

Yes. if I wreck it, I'm screwed.

[video=youtube;yUBoXBPGbxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUBoXBPGbxw[/video]
 
#20
Oddrod? Is that you?
Video is always better than pictures! Sweet work! Im gonna try to find your other vids on the process. Well done!
 
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