Gas welding
- Thread starter dhutton01
- Start date
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
The welds are softer, same as the parent material so they planish much easier. Welds are less brittle so less prone to cracking if you get hard into planishing. MIG welds are very hard and difficult to planish and metal finish. This is old school coach building technique.
For me another advantage is it’s easier for me to see since the eye protection is not as dark. TIG was no go for me, I can’t see well enough. I use a very bright light to MIG weld.
Another thing is I have to be constantly trying and learning new things. I’m not a rinse and repeat kind of guy. New challenges keep me interested.
Don
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I can't see well enough to do continuous welds for very long, but tig doesn't require as dark a lens as mig, so that helps some. I use mig sometimes, but I hate it.
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
I took TIG lessons from a local guy several years ago. He absolutely hated MIG. Called it the idiot gun….
'68 Coronet R/T
Oldtimer
He probably sold TIG welders as well.
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
No he was teaching TIG in his garage on weekends.
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DanMcG
Promoted Users
I'm the same way, I still need to try gas welding, I haven't done it since the early 70's, and yes, with coat hangers.
For oxy-acetylene welding of low carbon 16-20 gauge sheet steel with a neutral flame setting--any low carbon steel filler material is good that you may have on hand depending on what diameter you like to use. The idea is to use your rod as a "quench" for controlling melting of the parent metal to be as consistent as you can make it and contributing to the melt to hopefully less than 50%. 30% is ideal. The lower the manganese content of the filler metal the better. Thanks @chevman for pointing out in another thread that someone here in the US is rewinding bulk ER70S-2 wire on small 2lb MIG spools. That's good to know. It creates weld deposits more malleable if you intend to pound on them to stretch them by compression than ER70S-6 or -3. None of any of it though is capable of hardening itself or the parent metal--there is not enough carbon or other alloys that mimic carbon to make bainite or martensite on very rapid cooling. Those are the hard Rockwell RC scale phases.
RG-45 welding rod is north of $10/lb and has very low manganese in its chemistry. Concrete "tie wire" or what used to be called "baling wire" is $8 a for a 3.5lb roll and is quite similar. That's all I use for fiddling with my old panel welding and oxy-acetylene welding. Coat hangers are quite similar in chemistry. I like tie wire because its diameter works good for me. Welding to a code or standard--that's another story for filler metal selection.
Oxy-acetylene welding dumps a lot of unnecessary heat energy into anything welded with it just by virtue of getting the edges up to fusion at 2700F or so. You will just end up with an excessive amount of parent metal melting and expansion and subsequent weld contraction and shrinkage/distortion unless you plan adequately to balance that out as much as you can.
The OP's pictures show the heat temper colors way, way far away from the weld joint itself. Probably about 250-300% farther away than heat lines left with short arc MIG or TIG. From the attached you can see what the colors correspond to in temp. The scanner did not show 500F as purple but that is what its is. You would really like to minimize the heat into sheet steel. You will only have a heat affected zone (HAZ) where the grains in the parent metal were not melted themselves and that reached above 1333F from the heat of the welding dissipating into the parent material. That's anything on the side of the weld that got about orange in color. Grains there will be larger, course in shape, less corrosion resistant, and a bit less malleable but still quite soft on the Rockwell RB scale.
Short-arc MIG welding on carbon steel metal with ER70S-2,3, or 6 does not carburize, weaken or embrittle the weld, the HAZ or the base metal using straight CO2 or 75Ar/25 CO2. Deposits can be tough--but are quite soft on the Rockwell RB scale. It decarburizes it slightly. Reactive gases that are oxidizing by nature at the other end of the spectrum from those that are inert or those used in a furnace gas environment that potentially could carburizing over a long exposure time being in it. Such oxidizing reactive gases welding shielding/ionizing that break down and form CO, "free oxygen" (unstable elemental oxygen looking to make a compound to lower its energy) some O2 and then reform to CO2 and release heat and often a minor bit of ozone O3. Such in the arc can add no elemental carbon into the weld. This free oxygen slightly removes elemental carbon out of the weld by making CO as a binary compound at the surface of the weld pool when it is briefly molten. That's one reason, out of a few, why heavy doses of manganese and aluminum are added into most plain carbon steel MIG wire to get the welds fracture toughness at less than 0F or so up for a Code application use. The attached pages are from Bethlehem Steel's book titled "Modern Steels" from 1952, the American Welding Society's handbook 8th edition 1992 or so and Welding Processes and Power Sources by Edward Pierre --1967.
RG-45 welding rod is north of $10/lb and has very low manganese in its chemistry. Concrete "tie wire" or what used to be called "baling wire" is $8 a for a 3.5lb roll and is quite similar. That's all I use for fiddling with my old panel welding and oxy-acetylene welding. Coat hangers are quite similar in chemistry. I like tie wire because its diameter works good for me. Welding to a code or standard--that's another story for filler metal selection.
Oxy-acetylene welding dumps a lot of unnecessary heat energy into anything welded with it just by virtue of getting the edges up to fusion at 2700F or so. You will just end up with an excessive amount of parent metal melting and expansion and subsequent weld contraction and shrinkage/distortion unless you plan adequately to balance that out as much as you can.
The OP's pictures show the heat temper colors way, way far away from the weld joint itself. Probably about 250-300% farther away than heat lines left with short arc MIG or TIG. From the attached you can see what the colors correspond to in temp. The scanner did not show 500F as purple but that is what its is. You would really like to minimize the heat into sheet steel. You will only have a heat affected zone (HAZ) where the grains in the parent metal were not melted themselves and that reached above 1333F from the heat of the welding dissipating into the parent material. That's anything on the side of the weld that got about orange in color. Grains there will be larger, course in shape, less corrosion resistant, and a bit less malleable but still quite soft on the Rockwell RB scale.
Short-arc MIG welding on carbon steel metal with ER70S-2,3, or 6 does not carburize, weaken or embrittle the weld, the HAZ or the base metal using straight CO2 or 75Ar/25 CO2. Deposits can be tough--but are quite soft on the Rockwell RB scale. It decarburizes it slightly. Reactive gases that are oxidizing by nature at the other end of the spectrum from those that are inert or those used in a furnace gas environment that potentially could carburizing over a long exposure time being in it. Such oxidizing reactive gases welding shielding/ionizing that break down and form CO, "free oxygen" (unstable elemental oxygen looking to make a compound to lower its energy) some O2 and then reform to CO2 and release heat and often a minor bit of ozone O3. Such in the arc can add no elemental carbon into the weld. This free oxygen slightly removes elemental carbon out of the weld by making CO as a binary compound at the surface of the weld pool when it is briefly molten. That's one reason, out of a few, why heavy doses of manganese and aluminum are added into most plain carbon steel MIG wire to get the welds fracture toughness at less than 0F or so up for a Code application use. The attached pages are from Bethlehem Steel's book titled "Modern Steels" from 1952, the American Welding Society's handbook 8th edition 1992 or so and Welding Processes and Power Sources by Edward Pierre --1967.
ER70S-2 .023 MIG Steel 2 lb Welding Wire Spool Blue Demon | eBay
ER70S-2 is a premium MIG & TIG wire for. Welding Current for MIG process. DCEP (Electrode Positive, Reverse Polarity). welding on all grades of mild and carbon. making it an excellent choice for welding.
www.ebay.com
Worn Out Welder
Promoted Users
I resemble that remark.
I have learned enough here to know I would starve to death as a body man.
I’m confident I know less about more things than most people, but I do occasionally help some guys misunderstand things I think.
Worn Out Welder
Promoted Users
DAT reminds me of my favorite engineer.
That’s some on the spot information.
Thank you!
That’s some on the spot information.
Thank you!
Worn Out Welder
Promoted Users
My experience with gauge material…for me is that limited margin for error. Hit it and get it!
Some joints need a skip, some need back step,
It’s all somewhat subjective to the approach.
You know when your HAZ is consistent.
You have to find that travel speed for heat input depending on material quality, and cleanliness.
Ambient temperature, as well as air movement around you will affect those variables.
Some joints need a skip, some need back step,
It’s all somewhat subjective to the approach.
You know when your HAZ is consistent.
You have to find that travel speed for heat input depending on material quality, and cleanliness.
Ambient temperature, as well as air movement around you will affect those variables.
Treeslayer
Mike
any of you boys used this? i almost bought it instead of the wire i got, but i was under the impression it was china made? it was the only s2 i found in small spools. i can run 44lb spools, but it would take a long time to use that here, and so it would likely rust.ER70S-2 .023 MIG Steel 2 lb Welding Wire Spool Blue Demon | eBay
ER70S-2 is a premium MIG & TIG wire for. Welding Current for MIG process. DCEP (Electrode Positive, Reverse Polarity). welding on all grades of mild and carbon. making it an excellent choice for welding.www.ebay.com