Higher end fiberglass advice??

jlcustomz

jlcustomz

evil painter
I have a decent amount of fiberglass experience with traditional mat/ general polyester resin & some with epoxy resin & cloth for repair.

Next project is my el camino with the 2010 Camaro nose conversion posted in the new from Jacksonville thread. Looking at taking a 2015 aftermarket (duraflex) fiberglass Camaro bumper, fitting it, then modding it to look similar to the upcoming 2016 year model..I'm looking into using epoxy resins, rather than poly, & possibly an s-type glass cloth rather than the standard e-glass, since a bumper has to take some abuse. Considering a layer of epoxy/ s-glass to the entire backside of the new nose to improve it. Looking at fiberglast corp at their materials.

Anybody have any experience with higher end materials?
Existing modified factory​ plastic nose.







Will be reshaping aftermarket fiberglass nose to look similar to this.

 
are you going to be painting these parts or are they staying clear? you dont want to paint any part using weaved mat of any type. it may be stronger but the part will look like $hit as soon as it hits the sun. the read through will be terrible.
 
Used a fair amount of System Three epoxy and mat several years ago during my vette era. Epoxy is all I'll use. It is a slower dry product and I had to really work to get it soaked into the heavy mat I like to use.

Build it out of steel is my recommendation. I can still feel the itch.

Jim is right about any of the woven mat. It will stick out like a sore thumb.
 
edited in pics of what I'm working on. Photobucket won't work much of the time on this site for some reason.
Definitely will be painted. Modifying factory TEO plastic as I did with the factory 2010 nose is unbelievably difficult ,which is why I'm considering modifying an aftermarket fiberglass nose. Steel or aluminum wouldn't be a good choice for a such part that could /will get bumped.
The hood pictured was added to & reshaped with mat/poly resin on top with some structural lower side work being epoxy. Used evercoat g-2 for a surfacer.It was done in 2009 to 2010 & has very little shadowing in repaired areas after years of heat cycles.

Here's what confused me lately reading up on materials. On fiberglast corp's site, they stated that mat, which I normally use, has a binder in it that won't dissolve in epoxy. Never heard that before. I,ve used epoxy in the past directly with mat, definitely used it with vette smc before.

Just looking to what might be better for something such as a bumper/fascia. So I'm thinking mat as usual to the front side &maybe a tougher cloth to the backside.

​
 
you definitely want chopped mat on the outside that will be painted. a fine weave mat can go on the inside for strength if you feel you need it. you will always notice a big difference in polyester and epoxy and how it soaks into the glass. polyester goes right in and epoxy you really need to work it into it and it still doesnt really release all the strands so it ends up being more stiff and not taking curves and odd shapes as well. that is probably due to the binder that they are referring to. epoxy still works with it though. you will notice a difference with glass that has the binder. it seems kinda stiff like an overly starched shirt. glass without it is very flexible like t-shirt material. for most jobs i still prefer epoxy even if it is a little harder to work with.
 
Yea I thought it was the epoxy was just hard to work with, but I guess it is partly the binder in the mat. But if no one else has found the results of epoxy with mat to not be better than polyester, I'll disregard what I read & use mat /epoxy as I have before for the outer layer.
Guess I'll do a little more internet research on some of these higher grade fabrics for an inner layer.

Also later considering doing an epoxy/ carbon fiber overlay on the fiberglass underhood engine bay cover pictured & use universal clear to protect & finish blocking it out. Haven't played with carbon fiber yet. ​
 
You jogged my memory about the binder dissolving. I remember that and it didn't just melt right in like the poly resin. That is why I had to work it into the fibers more aggressively. Not a big deal because you have a little extra time to work it in.

I have some sheets I made years ago with two layers of heavy chopped matt that I use occasionally for repairing or building something. It's just as flexible and strong as when I made it. It's more flexible than the poly urethane and I feel it seems to bond better to the substrate like if your repairing old glass.
 
when building a part with glass the last thing i apply is a layer of veil cloth . it will stop the mapping .
 
What other good proven options are out there for resins like West Systems? Making a large panel with West Systems would get expensive quick
 
i just got a 5 gal resin 1 gal cat kit of mas epoxy. a buddy of mine works for us composites and he contacted them. what they gave me is a close duplicate to west system. thickness, kick off time, all properties seem to be the same. the price i got it for was just under 1/2 of what west system goes for. it was a killer deal.
 
Fibreglast is one large company with their own line of stuff.​

Another I just found yesterday is UScomposites. They have their epoxy kits at$25.97 for qt, & $75.50 for gal. 2 dispenser pumps for 6.95 They also sell west epoxy. Figured I'd call & ask the difference. Something I was looking at here was fillers (glass bubbles, talc powder, etc) to make your own thicker epoxy resin & filler. Heard of all these before , but never tried any. Fairly inexpensive. There was some binder free mat, but owens corning discontinued it.

Tried to post links, but this new windows 10 system doesn't want to copy links. Something else to figure out.

I noticed veil cloths , but didn't really look into them. Sounds simple enough
.
Main thing I'm looking into now is s-2 glass or other than std e-glass as a better option to use on a bumper/fascia/spoiler that will get some abuse..
 
I've used fumed silica in West System's and it worked well, Jim C is very knowledgeable with this stuff
 
Jim C;n77598 said:
i just got a 5 gal resin 1 gal cat kit of mas epoxy. a buddy of mine works for us composites and he contacted them. what they gave me is a close duplicate to west system. thickness, kick off time, all properties seem to be the same. the price i got it for was just under 1/2 of what west system goes for. it was a killer deal.
Click to expand...

Mas epoxy-I will check that out! Thanks http://www.masepoxies.com/
 
jl . i cant figure out what is up with the messages. no reply function i could find.
i have used the evercoat hybrid some. so far i like it . i'm in for anything epoxy over polyester . i also use the evercoat 870. on a front end like that i would not worry too much about flexibility . it gets hit your rebuilding anyway. kind of like running a bra on a car. i'd rather have chips.......
 
what i am told about mas is the company, endurance tech or whatever makes epoxy for all the major boat companies, usually in drums and big tanks. the "mas" is the same stuff as their industrial line. it is just broken down into smaller packaging and given the mas name for marketing to the public. fumed silica (aerosil) is great. it a good middle of the road filler that doesnt cause too much strength loss from being light and fluffy but also not so dense that its like working with a rock. there are many fillers though that give you different properties. milled glass fibers make high strength and dense filler that is rock hard while micro spheres (balloons) give a very light and fluffy filler which is easy to sand. here is a good chart with different fillers.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/filler-selection-guide/
 
Bob Hollinshead;n77607 said:
I've used fumed silica in West System's and it worked well, Jim C is very knowledgeable with this stuff
Click to expand...


haha, i picked up a few things back when i worked for viking yacht co......before i went on my own
 
Hey Jim, just noticed we both were typing at the same time yesterday about US composites . Guess great minds think alike . Is the epoxy from mass & us composites the same?
Called US composites toda​y, salesperson was pretty knowledgeable. .Was told west marines epoxy was mainly so pricy due to too many middle men. Was told most west epoxy was approx. 1100 cps viscosity. Their #635 epoxy is approx500 to 600 cps, which is thinner & will penetrate better into mat with binder & of course can be thicken with the , cabosil, balloons, etc to your use. That part was good news.

Then when mentioning about considering epoxy & carbon fiber on a car hood & epoxy on a car bumper, I got a different type of answer, partly due to being a florida based company. He laughed & suggested epoxy isn't the best product for near an engine bay on a black car in florida He recommended either vinylester or surfboard resin for the hood & under hood cover I want to do a carbon fiber layover on. Surfboard resin is the clearest.

On the bumper/ fascia, he did say the s-2 glass was around 25% stronger than regular e-glass cloth. For resin, he suggested something I have heard said form different people over the years. Their standard resin is much fresher (should be used up within 3 months) & will make a better product than run of the mill store stuff. I usually get my poly resin from a boat store that has about a middle grade quality stuff, but not as fresh or as short of a shelf life.
So I got a bit more researching & thinking to do ;;;

What I meant on a bumper taking a hit was little minor bumps they many times take, & the lower section scraping from parking lot entrance curbs , etc. The factory parts are all flexible plastic, that stuff is just so hard to modify & fabricate with, which is why I'm looking into better quality fiberglass.​
 
you know i had a brain fart. my friend doesnt work for us composites. its na composite. north american composites...lol. not sure what us comp is selling you. as far as epoxy goes in general, it gets softer the hotter it gets so its quite possible a black hood in florida sun may be an issue. i dont want to give you the wrong info. im just not sure on that. im sure alot of that would have to do with how the part was made as well. if your just doing a carbon layover on a metal or fiberglass/polyester hood then i dont see the epoxy being an issue at all since it has some structure that the cloth will just be bonded to.
 
The only drawback with West System I found is the cure time, but the added strength and stability are worth it for sure. The stuff is strong!
 
Well if this helps. I did a lot of Yacht boat repairs, modifications and custom structures though out the 80's and 90's using only West System Epoxy products and Mat 2000 tri-layered fabrics sourced originally from TAP plastics then West Marine starting carring the mat in the late nineties as well. They have differing weights of the fabric. I like to use the West Systems micro fiber systems like 107 adhesion powder, 106 and 110 fairing compound. West Epoxy stuff can exotherm if mixed up in a small container and then left to sit while your working so once mixed I always poured it out onto a metal or plastic sheet rockers palate and used it that way if mixed with any of the micro compounds. When doing mat work, I like to use a large flat rectangular metal automotive drip pan and work off of that. Soak up my epoxy resin onto the mat and work it in, then transfer the sheet to the area being worked on or fabricated. Clean up for your hands while working with Epoxy is easy. Just have a 5-gallon bucket of water handy and a couple gallons of white vinegar in another 5 gallon bucket. Dip your hands into the vinegar then rinse them off in the water bucket. Another method on repairs and fabrication is to cut up a bunch of fabric with a scissors and mix the small cuttings into a mix of the 107 adhesive and Epoxy/Activator, then spread onto your flat plastic or metal working pan. You can use the this method to fiber and fill in small holes or into work areas and fabrication areas with great lasting, high adhesion results. Once the glass fabric work is completed and you want a nice epoxy gel coat on the upper finished cured surface, take some plastic saran wrap and carefully place it over the wet surface making sure no wrinkles are present. The next day you can easily peal the plastic wrap off and the resin will have been drawn up to the surface for a nice flat epoxy rich top so the threat of checking and matting is greatly reduced. Then sand and use the 110 fairing micro compound powder mixed into an epoxy mix batch to fair out your imperfections much like you do with fairing compound for a paint job. …. Just some advice which I hope helps out.
 
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