One step forward and two st . . . .

Bossed

Member
Trying to get my son's daily driver painted. First try at spraying metallic paint. Sprayed the base coat yesterday evening, let it sit overnight. Changed filters, swept out the paint booth and tacked the car off. Using Universal Clear, I sprayed the first coat and it laid down nice. Figured I would wait the full 30 minutes to let it flash, but the re coat time was closer to an hour. Made about 4 passes and noticed something wrong, the finish was starting to lift/wrinkle. I talked to Barry and he explained I waited to long between coats. After more discussion about my options moving forward, I decided to wait another hour and spray two more coats (minus the top). I started on a fender, and it did the very same thing. I wanted to share my disaster with everyone so it could be discussed and maybe help someone avoid a similar issue. Should I let it sit for a day and try to re clear the panels that are good ? Please share your experiences.
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Forgot to mention clear was mixed with 4003-4 slow activator with about 5% retarder in the 2nd batch. Shop temp was 95 degrees.
 
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texasking

Active Member
:eek: I haven't seen wrinkling that bad since spraying lacquer over enamel. All products have a window where the product is in between flashed, and not dry enough to recoat. I have seen some primers do that with too much flash time in hot weather. Sorry you had to find the window for the clear. Only thing to do now is let it dry completely (at least 24 hrs.) and sand those areas back smooth, which won't be fun. I would spray epoxy over the wrinkled areas, and let that sit another day or 2 before base then clear. If I were doing it, I would lightly scuff the clear that is not damaged, and just reclear all of it at one time.
 
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Bossed

Member
Texasking, thanks so much for your reply. I honestly never thought about the difference between flash times and re coat times. I just assumed it was good to go, especially with the the heat causing it to flash so fast. I also assumed it was solvent attacking the previous coat. But when I spoke with Barry, he mentioned it having to do with isocyanates. I have another question. I had to throw away the mixed Universal Clear :mad: and will have to order more clear. I've never used anything but UC, but this car doesn't need the UC. If I wanted to try the Euro Clear would there be any issues spraying that over the sanded UC ?
 

serjik911

Active Member
I have sometimes something like that, and in my case it is always when sprayed base coat too wet and didn't let the sealer coat flash enough. Never ever had it with the clear coat.
On your place I would let it dry couple days, sand all spots and reprimer.
 

texasking

Active Member
Texasking, thanks so much for your reply. I honestly never thought about the difference between flash times and re coat times. I just assumed it was good to go, especially with the the heat causing it to flash so fast. I also assumed it was solvent attacking the previous coat. But when I spoke with Barry, he mentioned it having to do with isocyanates. I have another question. I had to throw away the mixed Universal Clear :mad: and will have to order more clear. I've never used anything but UC, but this car doesn't need the UC. If I wanted to try the Euro Clear would there be any issues spraying that over the sanded UC ?
No problem at all.
 

texasking

Active Member
Lightly 600 wet to knock any tops of trash down, staying away from edges, then thoroughly with grey scotchbrite and sanding paste. It probably would not have happened in cooler or drier weather. What hardener were you using? And what was the temperature and humidity?
 
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Bossed

Member
Slow hardener with about 5% retarder. 95 degrees on shop thermometer very humid. I've never used sanding paste, do you use it with the grey scotchbrite ?
 

texasking

Active Member
Yes, or if you're cheap like me, ajax powder with a little dawn works fine with the scotchbrite, wet. Very slow in temps like that, makes a huge difference in flash time, just for future reference.
 
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Bossed

Member
Yes, or if you're cheap like me, ajax powder with a little dawn works fine with the scotchbrite, wet. Very slow in temps like that, makes a huge difference in flash time, just for future reference.
I had every intention of shooting the clear early morning before the temp got so high. But after doing all the prep and cleaning it was after 11:30. I was so ready to see the clear on the car I let my want outweigh my need. Sure wish I could rewind that decision. First coat of clear looked great :confused:. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I sincerely appreciate it.
 

Bossed

Member
I have another question guys, in regards to repairing my mishap. I'm sanding the area that needs repair down to the sealer because in some places it got to the base coat. About 65 to 70% of the roof has no issue. Can I spray sealer over the scuffed UC that wasn't damaged. Or do I have to sand the whole top to the sealer and then rebase and clear ?
 
hello well being a novice here if your UC is cured well i see no problem with epoxy sealer over it..like i said im a novice and had issues like yours and did just the same and saw no ill effects from it....im sure more experienced guys will come along soon
 

rdransman

Member
I have another question guys, in regards to repairing my mishap. I'm sanding the area that needs repair down to the sealer because in some places it got to the base coat. About 65 to 70% of the roof has no issue. Can I spray sealer over the scuffed UC that wasn't damaged. Or do I have to sand the whole top to the sealer and then rebase and clear ?
I had a similar problem caused by shooting a second heavy coat of Universal too soon, just trying to use all of the clear in the gun. The cracks in mine did go into the sealer, so after a few days and several hours in the sun I sanded down into the sealer until all the cracks were gone. Then I re-sealed the entire panel, over rings of sealer, base and clear. I then shot the base, then the clear like normal. Problem solved.
 

Bossed

Member
I had a similar problem caused by shooting a second heavy coat of Universal too soon, just trying to use all of the clear in the gun. The cracks in mine did go into the sealer, so after a few days and several hours in the sun I sanded down into the sealer until all the cracks were gone. Then I re-sealed the entire panel, over rings of sealer, base and clear. I then shot the base, then the clear like normal. Problem solved.
Thanks to everyone who replied. Rdransman, I'd like to use the same method you did. My concern was the areas where the clear and base coat meet the areas where I sanded to the sealer. I was afraid the solvent from the reduced epoxy might cause lifting. When you sprayed your sealer did you use light coats around the trouble areas, or normal coats ?
 

rdransman

Member
Thanks to everyone who replied. Rdransman, I'd like to use the same method you did. My concern was the areas where the clear and base coat meet the areas where I sanded to the sealer. I was afraid the solvent from the reduced epoxy might cause lifting. When you sprayed your sealer did you use light coats around the trouble areas, or normal coats ?
I used DP40LF, reduced 50% (per app note), as my sealer. It is an epoxy - typically non-reactive and is intended for such applications. I sprayed it evenly overall as a normal sealer with no special treatment at the transition areas. As I remember, I shot a second coat about an hour later because I could see the transition rings. I then shot base and clear per manufacturers' instructions (edit: I added the next 3 words) the next day.
 
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Bossed

Member
I used DP40LF, reduced 50% (per app note), as my sealer. It is an epoxy - typically non-reactive and is intended for such applications. I sprayed it evenly overall as a normal sealer with no special treatment at the transition areas. As I remember, I shot a second coat about an hour later because I could see the transition rings. I then shot base and clear per manufacturers' instructions.
Thank you for sharing, much appreciated.
 

Bossed

Member
I finally got around to repairing the top and fender of the car. First time ever using Euro Clear and it laid down like glass. Super impressed with slick surface and gloss. Have to scuff the rest of the car, then two coats of Euro. Big thanks to Texasking and everyone for answering my questions and sharing your thoughts.
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