Paint Wrinkled--help.

[Barry]

Manuel Azevedo



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: Wrinkled Paint

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Don't know if this is the right place to ask this as I'm new here and this is my frist post, but here goes. Painting a 68 vett here, I used SPI epoxy frist and wet sanded seems ok, I then used Omni base two coat sanded wet and then two more coats. I let it all flash almost two hours between coats. I put two coats SPI clear on and I got a bug in it. I let it sit over night and tried sanding wet with 800, I went through the clear so I shot some more base, but what I got was it wrinkled up. I let it sit four hours and sanded that, but when it got to the frist base it was gummy and just rolled under the sand papper, what did I do wrong and how would someone fix this? Sorry to make this so long. Thanks for any help you can offer.

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Barryk



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 4116
Location: Blairsville to Canton, Ga
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:43 am Post subject:

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How to stop this? Its not going to be easy.
What did you do wrong?
You did nothing wrong, except shoot that brand of base, any of these low grade enamel conversion bases, tend to want to wrinkle or lift if you have to do any repairs.

If you put activator in the base this will help to a point but there is still no guarantee the base will not wrinkle in a repair.

All you can do is wet sand smooth and it sounds like it may be bad enough you will need to spot with 2K primer to smooth out.
Be careful and spray medium coat of primer, to wet and to fast will result in more lifting, just like shooting the base over the repair did.

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Jim C



Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 3018
Location: new jersey
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:44 am Post subject:

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thats pretty much normal. your taking basecoat with harsh solvents in it and putting it on a feathered out fresh clearcoat. the solvents are attacking that delicate edge. sometimes you can do it and get away with it but you always need to spray the base very light and allow alot of flash between. the best way is to spot some primer in on the burn to protect that clear edge and lock it down then apply your base. the omni is soft because it soaked up the solvents some of the solvents in the clear. normal and will come out and harden over time.

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my gallery (all spi): http://www.xtremekreations.com/gallery.html

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shine



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1514
Location: bluff dale texas
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:15 am Post subject:

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howdy manuel glad you found your way. nice to get advice without 14 paragraphs and smartass remarks huh .

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crashtech



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1546
Location: Southern Idaho
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:11 am Post subject:

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Sometimes when this happens it seems like anything you do will make it worse! It might help to make sure the panel is warm, like 85 degrees or so (not hot) and use medium reducer in the primer. You are shooting for a flash time of under 1 minute to decrease the time solvents have to penetrate and lift the base.

It might sound strange, but I have fixed these kinds of problems by spotting a bit of fast clear over the area as a kind of "lock down" primer. But then you need to wait til the next day to continue.

Time is your friend here, the longer you wait to continue and the more heat you apply to cure the existing coating, the easier it will be to repair.

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Manuel Azevedo



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject:

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shine wrote:
howdy manuel glad you found your way. nice to get advice without 14 paragraphs and smartass remarks huh .



Yea feels good! Very good site.

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Manuel Azevedo



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject:

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Thanks all for the suggestions. I really did not want to use the Omni but the dealer here would not sell anything else saying the Air Resores Board would only allow so called water base. (San Fransico Bay area) I sanded down to the epoxy and reshoot some base light two coats so far and so far so good! I'm thinking I should wait a couple days here before doing a couple more coats of clear, does that sound rightmaybe?

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shine



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1514
Location: bluff dale texas
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject:

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" tiiiime is on my side ...yes it is " i think you got a bunch of solvent going on. i may be wrong but the more cure you get the closer to square one you'll be. your experiencing what we call getting bit in the ass . i did a 55 chevy in omni ss " because my brother in law sold it. turned into a complete repaint. i will never say how many times i have been bit by my own dog......

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shine



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1514
Location: bluff dale texas
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject:

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what will make you crazy is the number of guys shooting it trouble free.....

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Manuel Azevedo



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject:

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shine wrote:
" tiiiime is on my side ...yes it is " i think you got a bunch of solvent going on. i may be wrong but the more cure you get the closer to square one you'll be. your experiencing what we call getting bit in the ass . i did a 55 chevy in omni ss " because my brother in law sold it. turned into a complete repaint. i will never say how many times i have been bit by my own dog......



Yea and I'm getting bit by a Pit and he is not leting go!!

If I understood you right, you think I sould keep going now and not wait to mone on to clear? Thanks

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shine



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1514
Location: bluff dale texas
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject:

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man i dont know. that would be barry's call. once i have problems i just stop and let everything dry some then stat a repair. i'd at least wait over night but then i dont know about omni's recoat window.

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jcclark



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 795
Location: Louisville, KY.
Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject:

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The problem is very common, happens all the time.
Putting a little clear over it to lock it down is a good idea.
I've known painters to put a light epoxy sealer coat over it
and wait a day to spot the base back in.
That edge where base and clear meet is a real problem.
Putting activator in the base initially usually eliminates the problem
for future sand throughs like that.

Some bases are way more suseptable to it than others.
That's the one thing I liked about DuPont's Chromabase,
everyone knocks them for having to use a basemaker with it
but I never had a edge lifting problem with it like I have
with the others. It was very easy to repair.

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JCC
(The other Jim C+C)

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Manuel Azevedo



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject:

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Thanks for all the help and suggestions on my problem. It looks like I got by it all for now anyway. I sanded the spot and when it seemed soft I use air to force it dry and sanded again until it was smooth again. Then filled in with layers of base with 30 min flash at lease per spraying until it was leavel and smooth. Spayed clear last nigh and all looks well today. Thanks again!!!!

 

[ADTKART]

A few years ago I did a paint job for one of my customers. He had had his Dodge Little Red Express truck repainted by someone else. The painter barely put any clear on the thing, so the owner wanted me to scuff and shoot more clear on it. The thing had supposedly been done with Dupont products 2 years previously, and had been garaged since the paint.

I started to scuff the vehicle with a grey scotch brite, but it immediately went thru to the base. The job quickly changed to reshooting the base also. I shot the base and everything went great. When I started with the clear everything went in the dumps. The first coat was fine, but as I was about 1/2 way around the truck, the job blew up. Wrinkles were everywhere! After trying everything I knew, and a lot of time on the phone with Barry, I finally repainted each panel complete, one at a time. Shot base and clear, and even buffed, before going to the next panel. Took a long time, but finally got it done and gone. I had to shoot new base in very light coats for 2 coats, with a third coat regular, after long flash times. The clear was then shot normally, with no problems. I did however, activate the base, just for insurance.

I work in a collision shop and see repairs like this done almost everyday, with no problems. There are also times when it seems like nothing goes right, even there.

Aaron

 

[Barry]

Sometimes there are no rhyme or reason for a lifting, I wanted to post this last week when I did it but uploading pictures were a problem.
See lifting in door jamb, I sprayed 2 coats of VW silver activated Debeers base, sat overnight and then spray the 4 coats of the ink coat, 5 in some areas, as plan was to wet sand base and re-base a coat and clear.

When I was done I came out an hour later to find my lifting, only in that one spot and nowhere else on the car.

All I can think is that is an area where two coats may equal four or I slipped and piled the silver on to thick there, either way no harm done, it got clear today and that part will section off to be fixed another time.

Sometimes, there just is no reasoning for what happens but I screwed up somehow.

 

[Deleted member 7]

Better the interior door jamb than the outside ole buddy.. We have discussed this before.. Something has to go wrong, at least one thing, or the job just would not be right

 

[Chad.S]

Better the interior door jamb than the outside ole buddy.. We have discussed this before.. Something has to go wrong, at least one thing, or the job just would not be right

You are right there, something has to go wrong, if it doesn't i have a hard time sleeping at night wondering what happened that i missed or what will happen the following day.. lol

 

[Barry]

The worse part about something like this is, a guy will call and he did everything right and its just impossible to give the guy an answer.
Maybe the paint is so smart it said, you know, I think I will be perfect on whole car and screw Barry here???

Bottom line is, I screwed up, just not sure how.

 

[Dutchman]

I sprayed my 34 Chevy as a novice. Didn't always listen and learned the hard way and had to do it again. You never gave up on me. I know my status hasn't changed since. Andy's, James' and your straight up advice encourages us want to be painters. I know you talk with many folks and some of us novices ask so many crazy questions, oh there are so many variables in this area. I can only say thanks!

 

[Barry]

Wow, dutch, that was nice.

My favorite saying for 30 years has been:

If you did everything perfect, once you pull the trigger on the paint gun, a 100 things can go wrong, out of your control.