PLAN 'B'

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jeffcamarobaby

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Can you help. I need to fill areas of major dings and dents. Had to #80 da to metal in several areas and #80 to remove bc/cc. Looks like previous paint and body guy used rust defender for high build; not sure what is under that but it's held up pretty well for 20 yrs. Plenty thickness to fill over spot epoxy areas and #120 block.
Question - should I use both 700 and 710 w&g over break thru metal areas before brushing spi black epoxy and will either cause issues with rust defender provided plenty of dry time?
Plan is to brush 3 coats epoxy over 8 to 10 hr period per Barry and wait two days before filler work and then work down to #400 before sealer and SS.
Thanks in advance.
 
The guys that know a lot more than me will jump in soon.
But first question is going to be "what are trying to accomplish?"
A "used car lot scuff and shoot" that looks good for a year is different than a restoration of a car you care about.
Way different...
 
jeffcamarobaby said:
Can you help. I need to fill areas of major dings and dents. Had to #80 da to metal in several areas and #80 to remove bc/cc. Looks like previous paint and body guy used rust defender for high build; not sure what is under that but it's held up pretty well for 20 yrs. Plenty thickness to fill over spot epoxy areas and #120 block.
Question - should I use both 700 and 710 w&g over break thru metal areas before brushing spi black epoxy and will either cause issues with rust defender provided plenty of dry time?
Plan is to brush 3 coats epoxy over 8 to 10 hr period per Barry and wait two days before filler work and then work down to #400 before sealer and SS.
Thanks in advance.
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80 grit to bare metal and start over from there. 20 year old previous work and spotting in epoxy and filler here and there is setting yourself up for failure.
 
Dean Jenkins said:
The guys that know a lot more than me will jump in soon.
But first question is going to be "what are trying to accomplish?"
A "used car lot scuff and shoot" that looks good for a year is different than a restoration of a car you care about.
Click to expand...
Dean Jenkins said:
The guys that know a lot more than me will jump in soon.
But first question is going to be "what are trying to accomplish?"
A "used car lot scuff and shoot" that looks good for a year is different than a restoration of a car you care about.
Way different...
Click to expand...
Old backyard toolmaker wants a few more years of fun. Car been off the road for 22 yrs during mechanical mods. Lowered, new sub, suspension parts, new wiring, and more. Car was painted in 2003 before my brain fart. Car dis assembled and on rotisserie for several years. Body parts moved several times from storage places - nicks and dings. Just looking to get body and paint to look good for area cruise ins and have some fun auto x and drag strip. Not a body man but been around. Just don't know new paints and preps. Got heated garage and 3m accuspray equipment, masks, suits, and stuff that I used before. I think I can do the work. Just need a couple pointers on how not to damage what is already there.
 
More help please. Thx for advice to not over think plan. Progress! Blocked panels with #80/long board and dura blocks. Still only few break thru to metal. Mostly rust defender and evercoat rage on prior flare work.
Booth area air temp at 80, panel temps 77 to 84. Sprayed black epoxy light coat all over. Waited 1hr (not in a hurry so I figured a little extra flash time wouldn't hurt). Wet 2nd coat. Set heat up a little to 85/90 to cure overnight. Plan on 1 or 2 more wet coats before filler areas after 48 hrs. Plan was to use epoxy as blocking coat to #400.
Big question - Noticed that Rage areas seem to absorb epoxy. If I use Rage for filler work and block down to 400, is a reduced epoxy to use as sealer before color enough?
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thx again.
 
jeffcamarobaby said:
Big question - Noticed that Rage areas seem to absorb epoxy. If I use Rage for filler work and block down to 400, is a reduced epoxy to use as sealer before color enough?
Any suggestions are welcome.
Thx again.
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As you have found out, the first coat of epoxy will absorb into the filler. The 2nd coat of epoxy will then cover the filler areas completely. Imho if the filler areas doesn't have complete epoxy coverage over filler, I wouldn't trust sealer to be my saving grace. Sealer is for uniform color and as an adhesion promoter.
 
crashtech said:
As long as there is enough epoxy over the filler such that it blocks out smoothly, no more primer steps are necessary before sealer. But, filler work has to be pretty straight to get blocked out with one round of epoxy.
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Thx. I will know more by end of week. Can I stretch the 72 hr window of catalyzed black epoxy if sealed well. May have mixed a little too much. If not just a little waste and learning curve. Thx again to all here. Great site maintained by experts and DIY ers that certainly helps us hobby guys.
 
jeffcamarobaby said:
Thx. I will know more by end of week. Can I stretch the 72 hr window of catalyzed black epoxy if sealed well. May have mixed a little too much. If not just a little waste and learning curve. Thx again to all here. Great site maintained by experts and DIY ers that certainly helps us hobby guys.
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As long as it is still liquid and hasn't set up it is fine. Also if you mix a little more and mix the old and new together it is supposed to start the window until set up over on the combined batch.
 
FYI, heat won’t accelerate the cure of the epoxy, only UV.

As far as pot life, if it’s still liquid I spray it. In fact the longer it activates the more robust it gets. And thicker build
 
Thx everyone. Laid down two/three more coats with at least an hour flash time for each and used all that was mixed. A little orange peel last coat. Hope that doesn't mean anything. Figure all will be gone with blocking. Will wait til Tuesday to start light blocking to check for flat. Hopefully getting close to color.
 
crashtech said:
Heat certainly alters the behavior of epoxy at my shop. Whether this counts as curing may be a technicality above my paygrade. For example, at 65F it takes 48 hours for it to be sandable, but at 90F it can be sanded after 8-12 hours.
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It will certainly flash off faster at higher temps, but according to Barry, he's told me many times heat will not acclerate the cure or open time of epoxy, only UV or infrared does.
 
jeffcamarobaby said:
Thx everyone. Laid down two/three more coats with at least an hour flash time for each and used all that was mixed. A little orange peel last coat. Hope that doesn't mean anything. Figure all will be gone with blocking. Will wait til Tuesday to start light blocking to check for flat. Hopefully getting close to color.
Click to expand...

You'll be fine with what orange peel you have. It will block out no problem. I too wait an hour before re-coating when working with epoxy. When you spray thickened epoxy ( mixed epoxy that has sat for 24 hours or more) I find it will orange peel some, so you're not the only person that has had that experience. If you want to combat that, put a cap full of slow or extra slow reducer in the last coat you spray. I will do that for epoxy parts that will be epoxy for it's finished coat. These parts are usually suspension parts / underhood parts that I want to have a smooth finish on.
 
Next help question. Maybe overthinking things again but I was at an auto paint store a couple weeks ago asking about using 4 yr old filler. He said filler probably ok if stirred well but don't use old hardener.
I picked up new can of ultra and hardener today intending to spread filler since 48 hrs after last epoxy coat. Looking at cream hardener, there are #s '190011 9.2019' on bottom. Is that a date code and should I be worried about it being maybe 5 yrs old if that is what 9.2019 means?
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help. Thx
 
I can’t answer for certain but highly doubtful they would give you hardener that out of date. Try it. If it’s not separated and it hardens it’s good.
 
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