Pneumatic Flange tool question.

MJM

MJM

Promoted Users
I know I've read on here that using a flange tool at it's deepest depth, say 1/2" is not advisable due to Ghosting that can occur after final paint.

Take a look at this video and you'll see it's making a small maybe 1/16" bevel on each side of the sheet metal to be welded. Do you think this would also Ghost after final paint?

 
dhutton01 said:
Similar technique with gas welding fwiw. I think the idea is that the bevel absorbs the shrinkage.
Click to expand...

Good educational video you posted for gas welding. I could 't tell if the metal he was gas welding had flanges or bevels on them. One thing is for sure, I bet the gas welding is easier to planish seeing it's a fusion weld.

I'm wondering using the video I posted if tig welding could be planished with the beveled edges from below the finished surface?

Edit......I looked again at the video you posted. It appears he had beveled edges facing up?...........interesting
 
Last edited:
dhutton01 said:
Similar technique with gas welding fwiw. I think the idea is that the bevel absorbs the shrinkage.
Click to expand...
MJM said:
Edit......I looked again at the video you posted. It appears he had beveled edges facing up?...........interesting
Click to expand...
The two are different and done for different purposes. The gas technique was for fusion welding two panels together and not have an undercut. Most of the guys I've talked too and asked about it (Geoff Moss, Peter Tommasini, David Gardiner) said they didn't do it and never saw anyone do it. For a flat panel with no shape it might work OK. But try putting that lip in a compound curved edge.Turning the edge up will take the shape out or create more shape depending on the curve. Not to mention the time it would take to edge you panels. Hard pass for me.

The MIG technique would seem to be more viable and might work well IDK. You would have a thicker area and perhaps have ghosting as ghosting happens when the panel expands or contracts from heat or cold. IDK, many buttwelds are usually a bit thicker than the surrounding area and they don't ghost. Only problem I see is that everything would have to be perfect before welding and any adjustment in panel alignment isn't going to work with those beveled edges. I think it would be hard to use the tool on each edge and then have those edges line up perfectly. Perhaps the preparation required would outweigh any benefits. IDK.
 
Last edited:
Remember when you turn an edge you stiffen the panel and it takes away being able to move the panel in or out in a specific location along the weld seam. And if you turn a curved edge it will change the shape of the panel. Even those 45 bevels will stiffen the panel enough that you can't move it in or out and will either pull or add shape to something that is a compound curve. If something is flat it may work well, something with shape IDK.
 
You have posted about making flush fit closing your running light holes. Are you going the wrong way here?
 
crashtech said:
I'm not sure it's working as intended, look at 0:32 in the Eastwood video and it appears that large amounts of distortion are already occurring.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you're looking at the disc sander which is leaving lows. I would assume the Eastwood method and the gas welding method Don posted both require the weld to be planished.

I'm going to try the Eastwood fit up to see how the weld planishes. I'm curious to see what the back side looks like after planishing. I'm thinking there is going to be more material build up. That not what I want but, I have to try and see for myself.
 
1A Rock said:
Didn't you even build some kind of exotic tool to make the patch?
Click to expand...

You have me confused with someone else. I don't make exotic tools.

But since I have your attention, aren't you from Missouri?.......I am. We should meet up, I know I would get a kick out of it.

You game?
 
Part of the being able to planish afterwards is that the face of the hammer and dolly needs to match what you want the panel to look like. It’s difficult at best to hammer on a panel when it has protruded flanges and expect something to be flat once completed. So in my eyes, once you’ve beveled something, the planishing option is all but removed.

I’ve watched quite a few of the Eastwood videos, and I find many of them are less about trying to train proper or best methods, but more about selling and showing the use of a gimmick tool.
 
As to ghosting, part of the reason these appear is due to different expansion rates. The other is that something is preventing the metal from expanding and contracting in unison across the panel, be that a flanged seam, the 45° flanged seam, or a band attached behind the seam. All will be introducing stresses of restraint while a normal panel would expand and contract as a unit.
 
A big mistake a lot of guys make is not putting enough pressure on the panel with the dolly. You have to pretend that you are trying to push the shrinkage up with the dolly, and the hammer is just to facilitate the process. If you hold the dolly too loosely, it will distort the metal instead of stretching.

I thought you were doing good with your new tig welder, its a lot less heat than a torch, and a much better weld than mig. You can also fusion weld a butt weld without filler rod, if the fit is good enough. This patch panel was tach welded with very little filler rod, and mostly fusion welded without filler rod. I'm not a good welder, so I can't direct you like Robert can, all I can say is practice.
100_1050.jpg
100_1051.jpg


Back side

100_1055.jpg
100_1054.jpg
100_1062.jpg
100_1063.jpg


100_1070.jpg
100_1070.jpg
100_1071.jpg
100_0686.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 100_1069.jpg
    100_1069.jpg
    132.7 KB · Views: 8
Last edited:
Well that about covers my curiosity concerning that slight bevel. No need to waste my time now that the Pro's have spoken.

Still a beneficial thread for those who don't know. At least I have gas welding left to try at some point in time.
 
Chevyman,

Tig welding is my new go to welding now. I feel a lot more comfortable doing it, though I have little sheet metal butt joint tig welding under my belt. Yeah I've done a lot of coupons, just not actual body panels.

I also full agree with you that the dolly on the back side needs a lot of pressure to be effective. I can't wait to make welds on body panels like you do. It's impressive.
 
Here is something else you can practice on. Like I said I'm not a good welder, and I'm sure the welders on here can see problems with my welds, but if you can work the metal that will go a long way. I don't weld that often, so I always practice before any welding project. I have much better luck fusion welding than when using filler rod, so its worth the extra time to get the patch fitting as well as posible. These coupons were welded with filler rod, then planished.
100_1211.jpg
100_1212.jpg
100_1213.jpg
100_1215.jpg
 
I use Tig to butt weld sheet metal 99% of the time. I rarely do fusion. I use .035, .045 or 1/6 filler depending on the metal thickness and the fit.
Everybody does things differently.
Here I spliced in the tail end of a chopped MC fender. Not too fussy making stacked dime welds, just need good full penetration. Going to grind it and planish anyway.
IMG_2545.jpg

Midway working the joint:
IMG_2546.jpg

Finished: a few small dings still remain in this photo.
IMG_2557.JPG

I have a nice small Smith A1 Airline O/A torch that I use for silver solder, heat etc. But, I only use it to weld sheet steel every 10-15 years just to make sure I can still do it in case they shut of my electricity.
 
Anyone remember the video where the Eastwood guy was demo'ing how to use their fender roller and he essentially destroyed the fender in the process? :D I saw that somewhere and got a good laugh out of it.

Eastwood will continue to thrive since their stuff is geared to the DIY guy. They also have these "Brand Ambassadors" to lend credibility to their stuff. Product whores. To the average guy who doesn't know any better stuff like the bevel tool seem like brilliant ideas.
 
eh, i am no pro with thin metal.......however, after trying lap fit joints and but joints, i am convinced the but joint is the best way to go. if for no other reason there will be less filler involved later. from what i see, its more about getting the welder set up right and not being afraid of running hot.
i expect tig is the very best way to go. at least for those of us with less talent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top