Well I celebrated to early! Finished assembling my car today to get it out in the sun so I could start the cut and buff. When I got it outside I was really disappointed. Its got vertical stripes on most panels and a few panels don’t really match although I painted the car and parts at the same time. The hood is the worse as it is a little lighter in color. It’s also the one I tried to drop coat because it had a few horizontal stripes. The verticals stripes are where I was spraying horizontally so I don’t know what my issue was. I am also the one who sprayed 2 gallons (rts) of motobase light blue metallic in 3 coats on a 280z so that may have something to do with it. All the jambs, inside doors, under hood, under hatch all look fine. So could I just re- spray the outside of the car while it’s still put together? It’s got 3 coats of universal clear on it now and I used all SPI products except the base coat. Thanks for any suggestions on how to proceed?
Re-spray ugh!
- Thread starter MKH
- Start date
Treeslayer
Mike
your scaring me man........
Dewalt 60 gallon compressor. Devilbiss cam air QC3 filter/dryer, devilbiss flg gun, 1.4 tip, sprayed base at 28 psi, RTI regulator on gun, SPI slow reducer. The clear looks great. Flowed our really nice.
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
Somewhere on here is a detailed description of spraying technique for metallics posted by Chris Hamilton. 75% overlap and constant spraying distance etc. I recommend you try to find it. It was a game changer for me regarding spraying metallics.
Your gun may have also bit you. I use an Iwata LPH400 with a 1.4 and orange cap.
Silver is the most difficult metallic to spray. Very little margin for error imo…
Where did you set your fan and fluid controls are your gun? 28 psi with the trigger pulled, right?
Was your compressor running constantly while you sprayed? Did the pressure fall?
Don
Your gun may have also bit you. I use an Iwata LPH400 with a 1.4 and orange cap.
Silver is the most difficult metallic to spray. Very little margin for error imo…
Where did you set your fan and fluid controls are your gun? 28 psi with the trigger pulled, right?
Was your compressor running constantly while you sprayed? Did the pressure fall?
Don
RosharonRooster
Promoted Users
I would push out in the sun for a week before I resprayed it. If there is no time constraints
I really don’t remember if my compressor ran constantly or not. But I don’t think it did as I was panel painting. And I never had a pressure issue as far as I could tell. 28psi with trigger pulled. Fluid all the way out. I am about to a purchase an iwata and practice with it. Any suggestions where to purchase? I was spraying base to heavy I believe. But this is my 5th car to paint and first metallic. The others came out fine. What is really odd is the vertices stripes. They are about a fan pattern long and almost 2 inches apart. Very consistent. Almost like my gun was fluttering but I don’t remember it doing that.
No time restraints at all. I’m retired and do this just on my personal cars.
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
Fluid all the way out was likely a lot of fluid and why you used two gallons of base. Typically 2.5 turns out on the fluid and a skooch less than full fan.
No idea on the vertical stripes. Was the breather hole in the top of your gun cup plugged? That will really mess you up. Were you using one of those little filters in the gun cup?
No idea on the vertical stripes. Was the breather hole in the top of your gun cup plugged? That will really mess you up. Were you using one of those little filters in the gun cup?
Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
How about a picture? I will say this, using two gallons RTS in three coats it's doubtful that you were having any delivery/sputtering issues. I think what you might be seeing is mottling of the metallic which will occur when you spray base heavy. Especially with silver. You might be interpreting that as vertical striping. Or did you orient the panels is such a way that what looks now to be vertical is actually horizontal when sprayed? IDK. And yes silver is in the hardest group to spray due to the metallic content.
Not being familiar with that gun and good settings I would tell you this. Set the gun up by getting a nominal pressure at the gun of 30 psi or so. Screw the fluid in all the way and back out 1 1/2 turns. Full fan. Set up some paper on the wall and with those settings pull the trigger with some RTS base in the gun. See if it is atomizing nicely and how big the fan is. Probably 2 turns out and 30-35 psi at the gun will give you a decent width fan and good atomization. Open it up more if the fan pattern looks too small. Once you get the fan to about 8 inches that is enough. If your pattern will go wider test and see. 8 inches should be enough, should never need it larger than 10 or so.
You want to use slow reducer or if it's very hot a combination of slow and very slow (assuming all SPI reducer). Spray with the aforementioned 75% overlap. Light medium to at most medium coats. You do not want to spray wet like you would with clear. You do not need to. Metallic will orient itself correctly with light medium to at most medium coats. Spray three coats. When you finish with the third coat do this. Get some SPI Intercoat. Mix the intercoat according to the Tech Manual. Do it separate from the base. Activate it if you want to, same as with base. 1oz per 32oz. When mixed and ready, mix the RTS intercoat with the RTS base at a 1:1 ratio. Then spray one more coat. Get a strong light on the panels and see if everything looks good. If not spray one more coat of the reduced with intercoat base. That should be enough to even your metallic out.
Main thing to remember is to be consistent with overlap and not spray wet. If you spray light medium to medium the metallic will orient correctly and you should get coverage in 3-4 coats max. Not sure of the brand of base you are using.
Not being familiar with that gun and good settings I would tell you this. Set the gun up by getting a nominal pressure at the gun of 30 psi or so. Screw the fluid in all the way and back out 1 1/2 turns. Full fan. Set up some paper on the wall and with those settings pull the trigger with some RTS base in the gun. See if it is atomizing nicely and how big the fan is. Probably 2 turns out and 30-35 psi at the gun will give you a decent width fan and good atomization. Open it up more if the fan pattern looks too small. Once you get the fan to about 8 inches that is enough. If your pattern will go wider test and see. 8 inches should be enough, should never need it larger than 10 or so.
You want to use slow reducer or if it's very hot a combination of slow and very slow (assuming all SPI reducer). Spray with the aforementioned 75% overlap. Light medium to at most medium coats. You do not want to spray wet like you would with clear. You do not need to. Metallic will orient itself correctly with light medium to at most medium coats. Spray three coats. When you finish with the third coat do this. Get some SPI Intercoat. Mix the intercoat according to the Tech Manual. Do it separate from the base. Activate it if you want to, same as with base. 1oz per 32oz. When mixed and ready, mix the RTS intercoat with the RTS base at a 1:1 ratio. Then spray one more coat. Get a strong light on the panels and see if everything looks good. If not spray one more coat of the reduced with intercoat base. That should be enough to even your metallic out.
Main thing to remember is to be consistent with overlap and not spray wet. If you spray light medium to medium the metallic will orient correctly and you should get coverage in 3-4 coats max. Not sure of the brand of base you are using.
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Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
If you spray it together, mask your openings really well. Fender to door, hood to fender, etc. Any gap like that which is not masked behind it will ruin what's behind it with overspray. It will take some time and effort (and tape) to get all those areas masked well. At the edges mask so that you don't have hard lines. Search backmasking here and there will be a post where I describe it in detail.
metlmunchr
Member
I'd agree with Don that your fluid needle was too far open hence the reason for using so much base.
Although I've painted over a dozen cars and trucks over the years, I had never shot any metallic paint until about a month ago. Always had this fear of ending up with a striped and mottled mess. Needed to paint a bumper cover, fender, and hood for my son's Honda which is just a shade or two darker than full blown silver, and with a lot of metallic. Nothing like starting with what's known to be the most difficult color to spray.
I've used an Iwata Bellaria 1.4 in the past, but had a DeVilbiss FLG 1.4 I'd bought a couple years ago based on Gunman from Youtube raving about how cheap they are and how good they spray. Gonna spray something I've never shot before, so I might as well do it with a gun I've never used too. Gunman has a video of shooting silver with the FLG where he says to do the standard thing for metallics where you spray the 2nd coat at 90 degrees to the first coat to minimize striping. Both coats shot at 28-29 psi. But then, drop the pressure to around 18 psi and shoot the 3rd coat. He says that lower pressure is the key to getting the metallic to lay down properly, and the way the metallic lays will cause color variations if its not even.
Much to my amazement, the job came out as near perfect as I could've hoped for. And, IMO, the FLG sprays just as nice as the Bellaria. Both are RP guns. I've also got a LPH 1.4 but couldn't get used to the slow travel speed necessary to use it. Guess I spent too many hours over the years with a #7 or a JGA where if you slowed down you had paint running on the floor
Although I've painted over a dozen cars and trucks over the years, I had never shot any metallic paint until about a month ago. Always had this fear of ending up with a striped and mottled mess. Needed to paint a bumper cover, fender, and hood for my son's Honda which is just a shade or two darker than full blown silver, and with a lot of metallic. Nothing like starting with what's known to be the most difficult color to spray.
I've used an Iwata Bellaria 1.4 in the past, but had a DeVilbiss FLG 1.4 I'd bought a couple years ago based on Gunman from Youtube raving about how cheap they are and how good they spray. Gonna spray something I've never shot before, so I might as well do it with a gun I've never used too. Gunman has a video of shooting silver with the FLG where he says to do the standard thing for metallics where you spray the 2nd coat at 90 degrees to the first coat to minimize striping. Both coats shot at 28-29 psi. But then, drop the pressure to around 18 psi and shoot the 3rd coat. He says that lower pressure is the key to getting the metallic to lay down properly, and the way the metallic lays will cause color variations if its not even.
Much to my amazement, the job came out as near perfect as I could've hoped for. And, IMO, the FLG sprays just as nice as the Bellaria. Both are RP guns. I've also got a LPH 1.4 but couldn't get used to the slow travel speed necessary to use it. Guess I spent too many hours over the years with a #7 or a JGA where if you slowed down you had paint running on the floor
Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
That might be one way but it's not the only way. I have never done that. What he describes is compensation for poor technique (inconsistent overlap, excessive fluid or both). Ive worked with a bunch of other painters and I have never seen any of them going up and down on an overall, never. And I have never dropped pressure on my last coat. In all my years I have come to believe that metallic likes air pressure and more is better in regards to how it lays down. Provided that I am using a quality slow reducer. The minimum air pressure that one should use is that which will atomize the metallic correctly. I don't know what that is for his gun though. 18 sounds low.
How Kosmoski does it in this video is how it's done. I would recommend to the OP that he watch this and try to emulate what Kosmoski is doing here.
Treeslayer
Mike
i tried that one way then the other way once, it came out really mottled. im liking Chris' way, makes sense to me.
Chris would still do that on a single stage metallic? i know, no one does metallic in ss these days. but we used to.
Chris would still do that on a single stage metallic? i know, no one does metallic in ss these days. but we used to.
RosharonRooster
Promoted Users
I've watched this video atleast 5 times before. And I still enjoy watching it
Kawickrice
Promoted Users
Chris, I have a question about the video. In the video it looks to me like the car is in primer and the jambs have not been painted prior. Does he do the color on the jambs and underside last? I saw no back taping on that car. Just curious.
No filters in the gun cup and I inspected the hole before each basecoat.
All the panels were oriented as they would sit on the car. The paint is motobase light blue metallic. I I stated earlier I had the fluid all the way out but I did not. I remember turning it in and spraying a test pattern on paper taped to the wall. The fan was wide open. In the second picture you can see the stripes. Look above the wheel opening and below the sail panel area. You can only see it at certain angles and completely disappears at most angles. I asked my wife to look at it to see if she noticed it and she did not. But every time I look at it’s the only thing I see!!
Attachments
Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
That's light mottling in the second pic. Not vertical striping. Lighten up your coats and you should be fine. Car looks pretty good actually. Might be a blessing in disguise as it will allow you to not have the color/flop mismatch on the doors and lid. Just tape up well.
Treeslayer
Mike
i dont think its bad actually. prolly cant see it in pics really but they look good to me. i have seen and done much much worse.