really

shine

Member
thought i would run this by the professionals on this site. now i have been in this business for 40 years and have never heard this until now.
as quoted from another site by a maco owner.

As for PPG vs Dupont, vs Sherwin Williams, I'll let you in on a little secret, there are only two major manufacturing plants for paints sold in the US, one is owned by SW, the other is owned by Dupont.......Think about that one for a while........
 
What would you expect from a Maaco owner who claims to be a custom hot rod shop? Kinda Oxymoron and their franchise contract would not allow it, remember these guys have a book that tells how to fix each repair and the average body man would cringe if he read it.

If ignorance is bliss, he must be ecstatic.
 
i would not doubt that different mfgr would buy some resins back and forth . possibly even toners . i find it hard to believe sw makes all the resins. but to make a statement that only 2 companies make all the paint in the us just wont fly with me. of course he makes the point that he gets info from higher up than a lowly little custom shop would have access to and that they would not acknowledge it in the first place. in 40 years i have know many different reps , regional managers and even a chemist or 2. but i never heard this. i had the southwest regional managers in my van company at least 5 or 6 times a year. both dupont and ppg . when they were formulating imron they used us a ginny pigs.
 
First S&W don't make and supply resins, I know i would not want any, if they did and i can assure you the majors are not private labeling for the other majors.

Resins are supplied in this part of the business by Nuplex, Bayer and Basf has acquired Huntsman and have a few, now there are maybe a dozen or more specialty companies that make specific resins for different purposes but have a limited offerings, Nuplex by far would be the major with at least 100+ different ones.

Iso's the majority comes from Bayer, Evonic and there are some smaller players out there but these are the only two that have ALL the different ones I need.
 
I've heard it...heard it a few different ways too. Used to be pretty common when talking about SPI on other forums. "experts" trying to prove that spi doesn't make their own products. Notice I said "make their own products". Entirely different that "manufacturing raw resin material". As if they think all the majors produce ALL the raw materials.

Hell, there are guys out there right now swearing that you can reverse engineer clear 100% and market it for cheap.
 
You can reverse formulate a clear but it takes time and costs big bucks.
I know of two companies that specialize in this and for a clear looking at $45,000 up to do it right.

The hardest part is figuring out the exact resin used and in our case where resins are blended, that makes it more difficult.
A major years ago came out with a 1:1 and said it was an exact copy of universal, the only thing that was the same was solids and it mixed 1:1, it was gone in 9 months.

We are having a product reversed as we speak and right now we are at 90 days into it and they just now figured out the resin used, by pure accident, as they were stumped.
 
Barry, in general terms, how are you guys reverse engineering? I'm going to venture a guess that you don't have HPLC.
 
NO knowledge of SPI, but I'd say that far more pay for such services than actually have them in-house.
 
Barry, in general terms, how are you guys reverse engineering? I'm going to venture a guess that you don't have HPLC.
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We start from ground up as my personal feeling is there is nothing i want to copy the item we are have done now and for the first time is totally different then automotive.

Like this hot rod black, took three months (about) but made what we thought was good purchased others and sprayed them all, adjusted our flatness to get in line but the chemical make up is way different then the others.
 
Don't tell shine about the reverse engineering...he will flip..LOL!
 
i've witnessed more dirty shit in this business in 42 years than you can imagine. i've had regional reps bold ass lie to me , had dupont try to cover up shipping bad batches of hardeners even after complaints, you name it . little surprises me any more. but the all time worse is some of the bs spread on the internet by one hit wonders and wannabes.
 
shine;22711 said:
I've witnessed more dirty shit in this business in 42 years than you can imagine. I've had regional reps bold ass lie to me , had dupont try to cover up shipping bad batches of hardeners even after complaints, you name it . little surprises me any more. but the all time worse is some of the BS spread on the internet by one hit wonders and wannabes.

Oh we all have seen it, one could write a book on it and unfortunately that just makes the SPI tech line harder to operate as everyone knows this happens.

I have always taken the approach, not interested in blaming the painter if a problem occurs but only want to find out the reason problem happened, so we can correct and it won't happen to the guy again and I have helped out sometimes.

What makes it tough, is someone will call me with a fish eye or run or solvent pop issue and the procedure given to me will be to the minute of what was in the tech sheet and once in a great while, I will just give up and say, you did everything perfect and chemically, it just can't happen. Sometimes they will at that point say, well what if?

Many a times, I have blamed the activator as perhaps sucking air through cap, or saying the white epoxy sprays clear because it may have been first gallon and perhaps solvent was in line, but its pure BS because of things we have in place and the white pigment in on the bottom of the gallon that was not stirred in.
I'd rather take the blame then hurt someones feelings, by the way, if one gallon sprayed clear, EVERY gallon in that batch would spray clear, no ifs or buts about it and if one gallon is bad the whole batch is bad, can't happen no other way. (this call alone is good for 3-4 per month.)

And you know, I have had a few new guys just say they did not mix up before using, hey they did not know better and in those cases, I understand and handled they way, I felt was best for them. After all, my bad as I don't think the tech sheets say to mix first and this was their first job, so I am at fault here.
 
Barry;22714 said:
Oh we all have seen it, one could write a book on it and unfortunately that just makes the SPI tech line harder to operate as everyone knows this happens.

I have always taken the approach, not interested in blaming the painter if a problem occurs but only want to find out the reason problem happened, so we can correct and it won't happen to the guy again and I have helped out sometimes.

What makes it tough, is someone will call me with a fish eye or run or solvent pop issue and the procedure given to me will be to the minute of what was in the tech sheet and once in a great while, I will just give up and say, you did everything perfect and chemically, it just can't happen. Sometimes they will at that point say, well what if?

Many a times, I have blamed the activator as perhaps sucking air through cap, or saying the white epoxy sprays clear because it may have been first gallon and perhaps solvent was in line, but its pure BS because of things we have in place and the white pigment in on the bottom of the gallon that was not stirred in.
I'd rather take the blame then hurt someones feelings, by the way, if one gallon sprayed clear, EVERY gallon in that batch would spray clear, no ifs or buts about it and if one gallon is bad the whole batch is bad, can't happen no other way. (this call alone is good for 3-4 per month.)

And you know, I have had a few new guys just say they did not mix up before using, hey they did not know better and in those cases, I understand and handled they way, I felt was best for them. After all, my bad as I don't think the tech sheets say to mix first and this was their first job, so I am at fault here.

That attitude is the main reason I decided to give SPI a try.
The product is a pain in the ass to get here in Western Canada but more than worth the hassle in my amateur opinion.
This forum and search function has saved me countless hours of screw ups, redoes and wasted material.
I thank you all.
Dean IMG_0031.jpg
 
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