red oxide lacquer

[underdog]

Just thinking to much .

From my exsperience old red oxide laquer primer that was sprayed on from the factory on bare steel sticks and feather great probably the best adhiesive coating on bare steel next to epoxy (in the automotive refinish industry)

Im going to say were all on the same page as to starting with fresh properly prepared bare steel is always the best when doing allovers, restorations ect.

But from what I've searched for and heard, most would remove all red oxide primer, prior to beginning repaint process.

My questions:

When red oxide is properly prepared, wouldent leaving somthing on thats lasted over 30 years protecting steel from the elements be a a good starting piont?

When I read that paint will come off in "sheets" if red oxide is left on, I have to say that it was not prepared properly and was operator error, laziness and or dirty surface(s) or incompatible substrates?

If you can give a great mechanical adhiesion on bare steel (80 grit da) than why cant a a great product like red oxide laquer
That has the same grit scratch offer the same reults in adhiesion ?

Thanks

 

[Bob Hollinshead]

I think some of the oem red oxide primers from the 60's and 70's weren't lacquer, does is wash off with lacquer thinner? If it washes off I take it all off.

 

[jcclark]

If it's lacquer primer then it probably has an etch primer on the steel first.
Lacquer primers don't hold well against bare metal, and they are very porous
that let moisture in, meaning they rust underneath.
That's why everyone used etch primer back in the day.
Now we have epoxy that does both in one, holds better and is waterproof.
But etch primer is still a great product that body shops still use a lot.

 

[underdog]

I had no lacquer on hand, I just figured it was lacquer due to the color and year 77, redish brown, it fethered with 80 on a da better than any other primer ive seen, usually it chips with 80 grit this stuff just feathered like the steel itself

 

[shine]

lacquer will turn to dust eventually . thats why it feather good. it looses it's solvents then just weathers away . paint over it and it will suck up solvents then you have a problem.

 

[underdog]

So every car that has lacquer primer has to blasted or stipped completely off, jambs, under deck lid trunck ect, or the paint will fail?

I would love to belive this is how everyone is doing this but how do you justify this unless your doing a build that dictakes this extra cost of labor ect?

I would emagine epoxy sealing, potential problem jobs would be most shops first choice?

Im just trying to figure out the truth behind these type of materials, I ask 10 people and get 11 differnt answers.

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So every car that has lacquer primer has to blasted or stipped completely off, jambs, under deck lid trunck ect, or the paint will fail?

I would love to belive this is how everyone is doing this but how do you justify this unless your doing a build that dictakes this extra cost of labor ect?

I would emagine epoxy sealing, potential problem jobs would be most shops first choice?

Im just trying to figure out the truth behind these type of materials, I ask 10 people and get 11 differnt answers.

 

[underdog]

Acetone and thinner will remove the color if rubbed for several minutes. This is being done on interior floors.

I'm not sure what the paint Is. I have some paint that I softened with thinner soaking in lacquer and they have not broke down

 

[Bob Hollinshead]

If you want the best long term durability strip it down to bare metal, use epoxy-simple as that. Then again, some people also claim to have good luck with rustoleum too :eek-new:

 

[underdog]

I agree, only if the build dictates.

If im going to spend over 60k on parts alone, sure have it dippped, remove it all and start over.

But not on run of the mil all overs. I have to draw a line somewhere, ive learned long ago over building common vehicles is a waste of my money and more important my time.

I appreciate the advice, and if I had my way I would have every part dipped or blasted and recoated. Buts its not logical.


Im just trying to figure out the best way for this particular build. It will be maybe 30k total.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree, only if the build dictates.

If im going to spend over 60k on parts alone, sure have it dippped, remove it all and start over.

But not on run of the mil all overs. I have to draw a line somewhere, ive learned long ago over building common vehicles is a waste of my money and more important my time.

I appreciate the advice, and if I had my way I would have every part dipped or blasted and recoated. Buts its not logical.


Im just trying to figure out the best way for this particular build. It will be maybe 30k total.

 

[crashtech]

The reason the old materials stuck to the metal wasn't because the primer was so good, it was because the factory properly treated the metal with chromate or phosphate to ensure adhesion.