Shine says: (topic of black ss paint)

  • Thread starter Senile Old Fart
  • Start date
S

Senile Old Fart

"ok , somebody cut and past this to the users forum.
pthalo blue is a bright blue toner. when added to black toner it gives a very rich black in SS . we started doing this in the late 60's early 70's . do not use an oem black until you check the formula. many ae full of dirt "
 
There are three different Pthalo blues and yes if you add a small amount to an off black it will make it blacker, a lot of companies will do this in the manufacturing of black to save on mill time grinding the carbon, as the finer the darker, a good cheap way out.
However if you take a good black black and do this, it can kill the black, a few years ago i experimented with a gallon of mine and added, I think it was 4 grams to the gallon with all three pthalo's including the neutral charge one and all three went brown shade, so do be careful doing this.
 
X2

Adding a certain blue can make a differrnce but you can also kill it at the same time. You can only tell with direct sunlight on it but adding blue will change the color flop so if you have a black that looks brown then adding a blue can make it look more grey. Adding the wrong blue can make it look red/violet and kill the blackness. You cant get a good deep black like spi's blacker than being a pure carbon black pigment. Anything added to it will dirty it up and kill that blackness.
 
Best method of obtaining the blackest of blacks is call Barry and order some SPI black :)
 
adding blue to white can make it appear brighter also but the same rule applies, you can kill it fast.
 
ok , dub got things fixed so run away while you can ...... .\/.

in the old days we added the blue to our mixing toner black. made for a richer color . i have not used barry's black so time will tell . i have mixed it in the last coat and have used it as a candy over black. but then we did a lot of stupid stuff back then . soap bubbles , cellophane acc torch , lace , all kinds of ignorant stuff late at night in the shop . i'm pretty sure there was drugs involved but things are a little fuzzy on the 60's 70's . only a weird painter could really tell the difference but we tend to get a little anal over stuff .
 
I'm getting a gallon of black SS from the next batch next week. I'm leaving well enough alone on the color it is, which is called black black.

I originally planned on doing black ss/ uv clear, but figured I'd try it out just as a single stage, partially from shine's opinion on it in an older thread here & partly because I'm bogged down in custom metalwork & may do some things in sections.​.I've done both ways in lesser quality blacks, the clear does clean a little easier. Will be glad to get rid of that hint of brown the gm black has.
 
Welcome back Shine. The black SPI has is really the nicest black I have shot in a whole long time. When I shot it it really put me back over 25yrs when the EPA really started pushing hard for change. Really is the blackest black I have used to date.
 
Outlaw;n82831 said:
Are we talking black base or black single stage?
Click to expand...

as far as adding blue...either one

as far the spi being really black, i have done test panels with different mfg blacks and spi's black is not just a little blacker. it makes all the other one look like you poured white in them. its quite a difference. closest being hok then rm d403 then sikkens jet black autobase plus. there were a couple others as well but got worse down the line. im not sure why but the spi black base is slightly blacker than the ss.
 
As dark as the SPI basecoat black? I have a black 57 chev to shoot and have been thinking the SPI singlestage is the way I want to go on this one but haven't tried it since it was reformulated. This car needs to be black black
 
Jim C;n82834 said:
as far as adding blue...either one

as far the spi being really black, i have done test panels with different mfg blacks and spi's black is not just a little blacker. it makes all the other one look like you poured white in them. its quite a difference. closest being hok then rm d403 then sikkens jet black autobase plus. there were a couple others as well but got worse down the line. im not sure why but the spi black base is slightly blacker than the ss.
Click to expand...


The only reason I can figure is the toners have filler in them some fillers may be of another color altering the intended toner hue but they figure oh well good enough. Dupont's 99k has nothing but black toner in it and still is not as dark as SPI. There are a lot of blacks they call black and a lot of whites they call white but they all have differant toners some have red added some blue some yellow etc and they call them either black or white try and panel paint any of them and your in trouble. Sometimes it can make you pull your hair out especially when you then have to tint to get a blendable match but that is a whole nother problem with it's own set of variables.
 
Jim & Shine , in your opinions for the all out slick shiny black showcar look, would you just use the black ss with no uv clear ??

I have both black bc/cc, ss, & ss/clear on the same vehicle right now. They all look the same in pictures & even in person take some really close examination to tell the difference when clean In cleaning the ss doesn't stay as clean, but it's just a cheap nason, which was supposed to be only temporary before sanding off & re doing, so it's not a fair comparison to a 2 different good products.
 
jlcustomz said:
Jim & Shine , in your opinions for the all out slick shiny black showcar look, would you just use the black ss with no uv clear ??

I have both black bc/cc, ss, & ss/clear on the same vehicle right now. They all look the same in pictures & even in person take some really close examination to tell the difference when clean In cleaning the ss doesn't stay as clean, but it's just a cheap nason, which was supposed to be only temporary before sanding off & re doing, so it's not a fair comparison to a 2 different good products.
Click to expand...
I've used the Nason Full-thane on some daily driver stuff in the past and found it scratches easily. Can't hardly wash the stuff without getting light scratches from what I seen... I'd hate to do anything nice with that stuff especially in black. I did a logger's truck with black Nason SS quite a few years ago and it look like hell in a few months-I think every twig that touched it left a mark LOL.
 
jlcustomz said:
Jim & Shine , in your opinions for the all out slick shiny black showcar look, would you just use the black ss with no uv clear ??

I have both black bc/cc, ss, & ss/clear on the same vehicle right now. They all look the same in pictures & even in person take some really close examination to tell the difference when clean In cleaning the ss doesn't stay as clean, but it's just a cheap nason, which was supposed to be only temporary before sanding off & re doing, so it's not a fair comparison to a 2 different good products.
Click to expand...
Wasn't thinking about using the Nason ss again, it's scheduled to be sanded off . Just stated it was my only ss comparison to a decent clearcoat, which was not a true comparion to go by.in making a decision on using SPI black ss only.vs black ss with uv clear.
 
i always do bc/cc for black. i only use ss for accessories and parts. there is really nothing to be gained other than excessive urethane wave by doing a ss with a clearcoat over. it may be a little more durable but that would be hard to prove. if your going to do ss then do ss. if your going to do a bc/cc then use bc. not sure why but in direct sun the spi black bc is a little blacker than the ss.
 
Last week I did a side by side comparison of Nason black and Chromabase black. Same paint code. Three coats of each with 30 minutes flash between coats. Used SPI reducer in each one. After drying overnight the Chroma had a matte finish where the Nason had dried to a cloudy haze. The difference in the quality of materials was apparent. Both of these were base coat not SS. No clear was put on. Turned out to be an interesting comparison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top