So why is a base coat like PPG Omni, Omni Plus, or Limco Supreme not good to use????

I was also wondering, about long term durability, if undercoat is good quality and well done, a good UV resistant clearcoat is on top and hardener in lower end basecoat, what could happen?
 
It will last at least 26 years like my friends old Chevy. He used high quality stuff all the way thru.
 
SmokeyHaze said:

Sorry for the delay of the pictures. If they show up clear enough, you can see that the water, on left, is more vivid and how the metallic and pearl really stand up. It's also a slight grey shade out if direct sun light, where as the DBC on the right has less of a stand up metallic look. It's also a darker black base look. There is some difference but it shows how water does different from solvent for the same color.
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For being a picture you can sure see a difference, I bet in person it's even more noticeable.
 
Barry said:
The pigment company we buy our pigments from it the largest in the world and a supplier to all the majors, they hired a women head of something and now once a week get very technical letters on different subjects. I look forward to these as this women is good where normally I just delete this type of letter as most are sales pitches by someone who don't have a clue unless its house paint.

A few weeks a go she sent a letter about cheap paints, very educational as the moral of the story is when you buy a paint where they cut back on pigment, longevity goes south real fast, just something to put in back of your mind.
SOOO if one brand of the same color takes 4 coats to cover vs the other that takes 2 coats to cover better look at how long you need to live with that project.
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I find stuff like that interesting..
 
I just updated my post. I meant using a lower end basecoat with the aforementioned procedure. Having limited options with solvent borne, I have used PPG Omni Plus. I tried Prospray in the last two months on a couple of jobs, and wasn't impressed, actually haven't seen a huge difference with the Omni Plus in coverage. What can go wrong using these lines in long term.

Having a good UV resistant clear, is fading still an issue??

I did my girlfriends car over two years ago, on a budget, it's just a small everyday Toyota, painted it Fiat PR1 red. I used Motobase, and Montana primer and clear. Other than the primer shrinking terribly it hasn't faded or anything. Wish I knew about SPI back then, it would have been a such nicer job for a little bit more money at the end.
 
Years ago H of C came out with a pink and said use for strips only as it would last about six months, Ljay and I did a ton of tests and it prove what we chemically knew.
A clear cannot save a poor base.
In short coating with the worst clear and then 6 coats of Universal, extended the life 1 to 2 months longer.
Then I took the universal and added so much extra UV absorbers that it would be non-usable for painting normal work and if I recall we gained about one month extra of life.
 
this is true. that was their pink candy dye. it was not lightfast and had a warning. same goes with any fluorescent colors. even with 10 coats of uv clear over them they will still fade out.
 
Clear with UV absorbers can only do so much as Barry stated. Barry knows far better than I could but the message is a familiar one for me.

I worked on a coatings process for the powersports industry some years back where I helped a company modify it's sublimation decorating process for application to soft plastics such as TPO. We developed a host coating, semi translucent 2k urethane single stage, it had the background color in it for the sublimation pattern which was a camo pattern. My modification to their process helped to make the application possible but the inks were not UV stable, the sublimation inks. They would turn pink/purple. We boosted the UV absorbers to try to protect the inks.... It didn't work.

As a result, there are lots of used ATV's out there with pink/purple camo.

Sublimation was eventually dropped as the decoration process. Hydrographics made huge advancements while sublimation was fighting it's UV battles, Hydrographics has taken over that market as a result.
 
So in the case of Omni, Limco, Nason.... fading could be an issue.

I always tought that having a good clear could make a difference.
 
chevy_power427;n81260 said:
So in the case of Omni, Limco, Nason.... fading could be an issue.

I always tought that having a good clear could make a difference.
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With a good base and a lousy clear you may get 2-3 years, a good base and a great clear you may get 8, 10, 15, 20 years depending how car is taken care of and all things being equal.
A bad base, all bets are off.
 
Where can I get Moto-Base? Dont know of anyone around Greenville, SC selling it. I found Wanda base.....isnt the Moto-base a touch better over Wanda?
 
Can I use SPI reducers in the Omni base or Omni Plus base coat? That's what the guy wants, so not my call. I assume I can since they call for omni reducer or PPG DT reducers. Since I have substituted SPI reducer for DT reducer, i would think I am ok.
 
The first time I used factory basecoat clear coat I was really surprised. It was probably back in 2003 or so after a long hiatus of not spraying automotive paint. The base dried flat, you were supposed to get the clear on within a half hour after the base was sprayed, and it turned it to a two step process of a color coating. The base was flat and rough, but the nason type thinner consistency clear was light and blended it all in. I am pretty sure those factory type bases are what has given most manufacturers basecoat a bad name and reputation when you are dealing with this group of really high end painters.
 
moparmusclecars;n82038 said:
Can I use SPI reducers in the Omni base or Omni Plus base coat? That's what the guy wants, so not my call. I assume I can since they call for omni reducer or PPG DT reducers. Since I have substituted SPI reducer for DT reducer, i would think I am ok.
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Yes the DT or SPI would be a good up grade and make it spray a little better.
 
moparmusclecars said:
Can I use SPI reducers in the Omni base or Omni Plus base coat? That's what the guy wants, so not my call. I assume I can since they call for omni reducer or PPG DT reducers. Since I have substituted SPI reducer for DT reducer, i would think I am ok.
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Yes you can, and it makes a big difference. The first times I used Omni Plus, I was using their reducers (MR series), it was okay for small parts, but on larger work, like a side, even their slow was bad. Then I used PPG's DT series, it was better. When I started using SPI products, and their reducer, it made it even better. I only use the SPI reducer since then, whatever base I use (when it's compatible).
 
Ok, one more question, guys! Can I use SPI Universal Clear hardener in the Omni or Omni Plus base coat, like I can most of the other base coats out there? Like a cap full per spray-able quart?
 
Thank You, Barry! And, thank you everyone else for stepping up to help!
 
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