To Lead or Not Lead...

M

mitch_04

Learnin'
Looking for some advice. The '70 Datsun 200 I'm working on has had 1 1/4 panel either replaced or repaired to where they took out the lead and filled with filler. The other side had the, I'm assuming, original lead still in it. I don't have experience with lead and I'm looking for advice on whether I should start learning or go a different route, perhaps a fiberglass reinforced filler? Here are some pics of what I'm dealing with.

Bad side



Good Side

 
I still like to use solder for areas like that but I weld the seam up solid first. You can see rust under the filler that should be removed. It takes awhile to learn how to properly apply solder. This is a good place to safe some money on solder: www.rotometals.com If you do use bodyfiller I'd still suggest removing the rust, welding the seam solid, and applying two coats of SPI epoxy before any filler is applied.
 
I definitely plan on removing the rest of the rust/filler from the area, this was just found during the stripping with the sander.

Do you recommend actual lead or one of the "less lethal" style of lead free solders?
 
Any tips on where to find good equipment for soldering? I see Eastwood has a kit, but I'm always wary of their products.
 
I've used eastwood tinning solder before. Seems to work good. Probably can't go wrong with their kit. I'm not a fan of theirs either but kinda hard to screw up a wood paddle.

My local bodyshop supply had all the paddles/tin flux/tallow/lead. I still buy lead from them but not sure on the rest.

Beeswax in a block works good for paddle lube also.

Supposedly the lead free stuff needs more heat. I feel you put enough heat into the process already. I use lead but I'm not licking the bars during the process either.

I'm not grinding on it either. I use good body files from www.tinmantech.com The better it's applied the less work just like bondo.
 
Just my 2 cents,If you have never leaded before I'd proceed with caution, health wise just this one vehicle wont accumulate much in your body but know that lead has killed many old bodymen. Lead and (leaded paint) is probably the main reason why there are almost no old bodymen around. Most of them died in their 60's. My Dad was one that suffered from the cumulative effects of it before he died. Breathing the fumes when applying it is dangerous, wear a respirator, preferably a supplied air system, never ever sand it, always use a file. And be 100% certain that you know how to neutralize the acid from tinning it. Improper application of lead has ruined many a paint job. Evercoat Metal to Metal (http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=37) is a good substitute for lead and it actually looks very similar. All I use when replacing lead in a seam.
 
so you just use this instead of any lead when doing a quarter panel seam that was originally leaded from the factory (after you have welded the seam solid)? why would this be better than a fiberglass product? just curious.
 
moparmusclecars;n71415 said:
so you just use this instead of any lead when doing a quarter panel seam that was originally leaded from the factory (after you have welded the seam solid)? why would this be better than a fiberglass product? just curious.
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It's not necessarily any better, in fact a lot of people don't like it. If you are comfortable using dura-glass or something similar there isn't anything really "better" about it. Main thing to me is it looks like lead and when I have a customer look at something I'm working on in progress they don't give me 20 questions about "why did you put fiberglass etc there"? I have found it to be very durable and trouble free. Doesn't sand the greatest but I usually cheesegrate it off and have minimal sanding. Others may have a completely different opinion about it, it's really just a personal preference of mine.
 
Years ago I did a car with All Metal and it shadowed through. Bob has the best idea in welding up the joints seamless, Epoxy, and then regular fill. Haven't done a muscle car in close to ten years but that is what I would do. Lead would be a close second and I personally wouldn't do any type of filler method. Any filler applied that thick in a particular area is going to shrink/contract different than the base metal and be visible to those that know.

Good tips with the safety precautions Chris. Back in the day a 8" body grinder would be used to rough in the lead. Grandfather in law did it that way for over 60 years. What a mess it used to make when he'd do it. He's in his late 80's and somehow he dodged the bullet with his health. It's just what they did and didn't think anything of it.
 
Most of the jobs I use it in are not financially feasible to spend the extra time welding up seams. I'm learning to be more selective in what I take in but it's hard sometimes when you have bills to pay.
 
I did some research on leading. Sounds like the tinning process can leave flux in any of the weld seam that can trip it. Then when you apply the lead, the butter used on the wood paddle can get trapped in the lead. Both leading to blistering in the paint down the road. There is also the issue of introducing "acid" into the process when using SPI Epoxy.
 
Leading is a venerable process with a bit of "cachet," but from my observations it holds no special claim to durability over properly done filler over epoxy.
 
Outlaw;n78737 said:
I did some research on leading. Sounds like the tinning process can leave flux in any of the weld seam that can trip it. Then when you apply the lead, the butter used on the wood paddle can get trapped in the lead. Both leading to blistering in the paint down the road. There is also the issue of introducing "acid" into the process when using SPI Epoxy.
Click to expand...

Please explain how SPI Epoxy introduces acid into the process, thanks !
 
Senile Old Fart;n78781 said:
Please explain how SPI Epoxy introduces acid into the process, thanks !
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I did not do a very good job of explaning what I was trying to say. If in fact acid from tinning can get trapped in a weld under SPI Epoxy, I was questioning the possibility of introducing acid under SPI Epoxy.
 
Does anyone use lead anymore? I don't know anyone doing it, with the advancement in products available today I really don't see a need for it IMO. I could be wrong though.
 
Very few people bother with the lead replacement stuff.
The evercoat metal to met​al product is one of the common replacements for lead use in seams.
Also as I just posted to Outlaw in the what could be used instead of lead thread, an evercoat field rep suggested to me the Fiber Tech filler as an initial filler over a bonded or recessed welded area, followed by a smoother filler, such as metal glaze. This type of product should add a little more structural & thermal stability to such an area.
 
I just got another recommendation from a friend. He felt welding the seam shut and filling with weld, then going over the repair area with Fiber Tech or stranded fiber glass would be a good option.
 
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