Where To Buy Gun & What Else Do I Need???

P

PUNISHER VETTE

I'm gearing up to paint my vette hopefully. Planning on a metallic gray.
I've been reading old threads all morning but sometimes it's just easier to get direct advice for me.

1. Seems like the Iwata lph400lv is an all around "good" gun for base and clears so was planning on buying that in the silver tip. Amazon sells them...but $100 higher than it seems other places. Just didn't know if there was a well known store that many use? I'm a novice but want something that's good to give me as much help painting as possible.

What I have:
-80g compressor. 16cfm so should be plenty.
-50' of hose from basement to garage with a nice water trap and then a 5micron bowl filter(works awesome)
-Vaper for primer.
-some hand block sanding stuff. durablocks and the 3 set flex boards. Will probably buy some of the foam soft sanders too since the vette has lots of curves.
-6" Dewalt electric DA.
-90deg die grinder
-New 25' 3/8 ID hose for when I paint only.

DO I NEED?:
-a desiccant dryer for smaller than 5micron and oils?
Not sure of the inlet/outlet size but like the price of this DeVilbiss unit. But would rather NOT spend $150 if I don't need it.

-I have little knowledge on sanding once I paint base. Do I wet sand the metallic? I'm still researching this stage so bare with me.
I know I need to sand the clear so what tools, compounds, and pads are needed for all these sanding steps? The safer they are for a novice the better lol. DA's, orbitals, polishers, million different pads and compounds... There aren't very many flat areas on my '69 so what are good ways to avoid damaging my paint job using tools designed for mostly flat surfaces?

Anything else you can think of I will need. Sorry for the long novel!
 
Try out satarules on here, got a couple lphs from Russ, good guy to work with.

No sanding the base, metallic will stripe/scratch when sanded. If this is your first all over I'd highly recommend against any pearls/metallics, its very easy to get tiger striping and mottling. I'd go with a plain old solid color myself.

Your compressor wl be at its limit when spraying, you'll also need a good regulator at the wall and a good one on the gun, I'm not sure what everyone is using for a dessicant dryer around here but I'm sure someone will chime in.

As far as your electric DA I'm not sure if one would be up to the task, I use 3m air DA sanders.

As far as sanding boards I do have a set of dura blocks for odd areas and some motorguard flex/memory blocks that do well as well, but, it seems for ultra straight nothing compares to a good old fashioned file board, a full and half board will do 90% of your sanding.

As far as sanding I use 80 grit to shape filler, then 150 on my first round of 2k, then if a third round I use 220, all on the file boards/dura blocks, when I am all done I use 400 grit hook it with an interface pad prior to sealer on solids, if spraying pearls/metallics I interface with 600-800.

You're a long way from clear so I'd recommend keeping that out of your head for the time being, one step at a time will make it much easier to deal with cut and buff is a whole nother can of worms.
 
If his name is "satarules" why would I buy an Iwata from him? lol

Yeah... I asked about polishers/buffers because I wasn't sure if I needed them right after base and had to quickly use them before I cleared. But if that's not the case I can wait till then to figure all that out. Looks like the Flex L3403 is what is recommended for a polisher/buffer. But I'm guessing i'll still need an orbital for cutting and a good DA for 3000 or less cutting?

I've been told 100 times "why don't you just pay someone to paint it" and know metallics are harder... But I'm bold headed and determined to get a color I want. I have an old hood, the engine bay, and other things I can use as practice before spraying the car...if those turn out terrible I'll reconsider at that point.

16cfm and 80g at it's limits? I surely hope not. If i have to slow down a bit and wait 5min I guess I'll have to do what I have to do.
I saw one thread on desiccant driers and they were posting $300-$500 dryers... for home use and 1 car i'm not sure I'm willing to spend that much.

Hoping for a good DA. seems like air is where I need to be but want one that will do all the jobs it needs to do...not 4...each with their own unique task hopefully. 5" or 6" palm i'm guessing?

So far I don't mind using my durablocks and I did get the $300ish set of flex blocks. just not very many flat areas for me to feel good about a file board longer than 1ft. For areas like the firewall with tiny nooks and crannies....how to others wetsand without power tools?
 
1 air DA will be a jack of all trades. I use a 3/16 3m 6". Yes you will be at the limits of that compressor, its what its rated at but not what it will actually pump out, I went thru that.... As far as waiting a few minutes between as you spray; you're boned on metallics, they are very unforgiving of pressure and temperature fluctuations. Your air needs to be able to hold at least 135 or so at the wall and the compressor keep up, I run an Ingersoll type 30 with a true 5 HP motor and its at its tipping point, I have a second one running in tandem that does kick in now and again during long sprays.
 
-50' of hose from basement to garage with a nice water trap and then a 5micron bowl filter(works awesome)
You may have a problem if you are using a 50' rubber hose. The air coming out of your compressor (going into the tank) is around 300-degrees F and it is holding moisture (unless your basement is unusually dry). The moisture condenses as the air cools in the tank. At 150-degrees and 125 psi, the air in your tank is still able to hold moisture. The way to get the moisture out is to cool the air before it gets to your spray gun or tool. You can spend $300+ for a refrigeration unit or for less money add 40- or 50-feet of metal pipe with drain legs before the desiccant dryer. If you decide not to use a desiccant dryer, you still need the cooling pipe before your final filter or any outlets for spraying paint. Black pipe or galvanized works but copper is a better conductor (and more expensive). I simply ran 40-feet of 1/2" galvanized under some cabinets in my garage.
AirSupply_0005.jpg


At the end of the first pipe run is the desiccant dryer I picked up at Harbor Freight a few years ago (they no longer carry it).
AirSupply_0004.jpg


More galvanized pipe connects the dryer to a Motorguard filter that removes any remaining contaminants like desiccant dust, moisture and oil vapor.
M-60Filter.jpg


-6" Dewalt electric DA.
You can use an electric DA but you better have stamina. I think that Dewalt weighs 5.7lbs. Won't be a problem on the horizontal but the vertical surfaces will flat wear you out. This air powered Dynabrade 6" DA weighs just 1.9 lbs:
13F637_AS01.JPG


You may be able to find a better price but Zoro has a Dynabrade 69025 (6" 3/16 orbit) for $164.65 and free shipping (http://www.zoro.com/i/G3735575/?gclid=COCIuJviqMECFY9cMgodFzgAXg. Not cheap but remember you are probably going to spend $90 or so for 15 Trizact 5000 grit disks.
 
Thanks for the tips! I'll have to do some research on the DA and make a decision soon....as I HATE my electric DA. lol.

I just rent where I'm at so I'm not really able to put a bunch of piping like I would if I owned the place. I do however have my old 15g compressor. I could use it as an inline gigantic water trap as well as add capacity...but I'm not really interested in doing that either since I'm not convinced I have water in my air currently.

I also have a hard time believing, because I haven't experienced it myself, that a single PSI or a few degrees temp flux will affect my paint job. Maybe I just don't know any better... but maybe painters also like to error on the SUPER safe side? What would be a way to measure the air temp coming out of my line that I could measure during the primer stages to see how much it heats up? Same goes for water in the line...any way to detect it?

I can only do the best job I can with my abilities and tools I can afford. While I don't have a "budget" I'm also not interest in spending thousands for tools when I can get 99% as good a job with less. All I'm trying to say is it's hard to sort out whats required vs. what's best... and how much affect not having the best could hurt me or WILL hurt me.
 
Metallics are just a pain in the rear. Indoors you never see the differences if your piece painting(at least I haven't) but in the sun you will, tiger stripes and mottling seems to be the main issue, I do tend to er on the super safe side, but, its a lot of hours to have to go back and respray.

As far as budget, I have an lvlp gun I got from summit for less than $70, it sprays really well but I couldn't buy parts for it when I needed them so I bit the bullet and bought iwatas pretty much for that reason alone.

As far as water in the line as soon as it warms up you'll notice it on your air tool exhaust a cheap drier is a roll of copper line in a bucket of ice water with a drop after it.

The biggest thing with a metallic/pearl is you can't really piece paint them and if you trip up or get your gun at an angle bam, there's the problem, a metallic may very well be within a first timers grasp, I don't doubt that, but the learning curve is steep, it was even tough after my first few all overs.

Best of luck.
 
bomccorkle;40458 said:
Metallics are just a pain in the rear. Indoors you never see the differences if your piece painting(at least I haven't) but in the sun you will, tiger stripes and mottling seems to be the main issue, I do tend to er on the super safe side, but, its a lot of hours to have to go back and respray.

As far as budget, I have an lvlp gun I got from summit for less than $70, it sprays really well but I couldn't buy parts for it when I needed them so I bit the bullet and bought iwatas pretty much for that reason alone.

As far as water in the line as soon as it warms up you'll notice it on your air tool exhaust a cheap drier is a roll of copper line in a bucket of ice water with a drop after it.

The biggest thing with a metallic/pearl is you can't really piece paint them and if you trip up or get your gun at an angle bam, there's the problem, a metallic may very well be within a first timers grasp, I don't doubt that, but the learning curve is steep, it was even tough after my first few all overs.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I had water with my old 15g compressor a LOT. But so far with the new 80g, the 50' line, the trap, the nice filter/reg I haven't noticed any water coming out of my line so far. Maybe i'll hold my nozzle on a single spot for a while and see if I notice any.

I think I can set up to paint the car all at once and with the pieces near where they are expected to go. Except for maybe the door jams....But I haven't gotten that far yet.

I guess I'm hoping that by the time I get primer on, the engine bay painted metallic, my old hood, scooter, motorcycle painted... I'll have a decent grasp of a plan. Or at the very least know my skill level and if I want to proceed lol. It's either I pay someone to paint it the color I want... lots of $$$ or I do my best and see what happens. Worse case I have to sand it back off and either try again or switch to a solid right? Best case it comes out good enough for my liking and I boom... done deal.
 
Is the bigger the orbit on a DA better or is 3/16's just the magic "good" number? I ask because it seems like Danabrade has a billion models of sanders :(
vacuum capable? I don't think i'd use it...but not sure if I use it to sand fiberglass....

Also. Do I need a hook/loop adapter for it or are those mostly for the electric...I should get a bunch of stick on sand paper?

Also... should I get a soft interface pad for it? If so how soft/thick?
 
3/16 seems magic all except my mudhog are 3/16, jack of all trades I suppose. I use stick it to strip, seems stuffer than hook it. As far as I know 3m only has one interface pad pn# 05777

Interface is hook it.

I strip then block with 80, when all is good spray 3 coats 2k then block with 150 till I'm beggining to break thru, if its straight I spray 2 coats 2k then interface, if its not I spray 3 more coats 2k then block at 220.

After blocking I spray 2 coats 2k then apply guide coat and then interface, for silver I'd say at least 600 grit, till everything is smooth as a baby's butt then on to sealer.

Oh and I don't use vacuum , don't think most guys do but could be wrong.

Seems like a Lot of 2k but most will end up on the floor.....
 
Yeah. From all my researching tonight on best orbitals Dynabrade come up top...but 3M seems hot on it's tail...just lesser known or touted.
I've only used hook/loop with my dewalt so I'm not very knowledgeable on the other methods.


I'm not too sure I'm going to use any 2k.

I like the fact that the epoxy primer doesn't shrink where the 2k has that chance.

Plus having everything the same(no layers of this, layers of that, ...) appeals to me.

It may take longer to build up spraying only epoxy.... but... but... to me i get nervous using something different and something that could shrink if I don't apply it correctly. Plus the epoxy doubles as a great sealer.
 
I just switched to the 3m Sanders a few months back, I think they run smoother my self, I used to have and still do have a couple of dynabrades.

The beauty of 2k is its speed, its easy for another coat once it flashes and by the time the gun is cleaned and put away its ready for guidecoat and the blocks, plus its kind of made to sand which is nice.

I've never run into any shrinkage issues with it but I usually don't even get to the next coat the next day, its usually a couple/three days later, after my panels are all blocked and ready they get set to the side.

Even when using 2k I use epoxy reduced 10% for my sealer.

The epoxy method is nice to use all one product but it does take a lot of coats and a lot of time, it really doesn't like being hammered on like 2k, dig up some of shines threads, that's how he does his vettes.
I've tried it on a couple things and for me it just takes too long to get the film build, but to each his own and shines method is pretty solid.
 
Yeah. one review I read about dynabrade was from a guy that switched over to 3M and also found them to be better...so maybe I'll look at the 3M's a little closer :)

What size painting cup should I get for my Iwata?

600ml, 700ml, or the 1000ml?


Shine was the one who mentioned to me over on the vette forum he painted his corvettes with only epoxy... I have a hard time not going by what he says lol.
The 2k does sound a lot better... higher build... easier sanding.. I already have a gallon of epoxy though...although that probably won't last all that long :/
 
I think all but one of my guns have the liter cup on them, the oddball is a 600 if I remember right, a quart will fill a liter cup so.....

Yeah if shine says it, it works.

I think on average by the time I get thru filler stages and the bottom side and engine compartment etc, I usually have a little more than I need for sealer when working from gallons(two gallons sprayable) I strip then epoxy, then fill and block, when I think its right I put a couple more coats of epoxy down and reblock, it helps make any lows pop with that sheen, although for silver you'll prob be using white epoxy so not sure on that, I use all black epoxy, gray 2k, then white or black for sealer, having the 2k and epoxy different colors helps let you know where you are.

I believe, but don't quote me, that shine alternates his epoxy layer colors as well. He would be the guy to ask about a general quantity needed to block out the whole way with epoxy.
 
The cyber gray I'm thinking of painting is a darker color... I've been using only black so far... not sure exactly what color I "should" be using :/
I like black as i don't need a guide coat for it. But maybe the gray is the same way...
I guess I should have probably bought gray...but I like the black look lol...even if it's just primer :D

NOT MY CORVETTE!!! lol... but I wish.
image-1599.jpg



 
Yep blacks the ticket for that, I was thinking it was a silver. The nice thing about gray is guidecoat showing on it, I use dykem and it makes everything stand out like a sore thumb. The red will look pink on gray so the good spots are gray and the bad pink, its hard to miss, also shows sand scratches super well, which is something you'll really need to keep on top of with the metallic.

- - - Updated - - -

I think mirka may make a white guidecoat for use on black. Its a pounce powder. I GC at every sanding step after roughing in filler.
 
$700 poorer now :D

Iwata on the way
Went with the Dynabrade(sorry bomccorkle)...just too many good reviews of it vs the 3M with only a select few good reviews.

and some accessories for the dynabrade. 80g pads to start. got a hook/loop kit for it in case i want to use the stockpile of pads in that format I already have.
 
How much universal clear will it take to do a corvette and the engine bay? I guess I can buy just enough to do the engine bay for now as clear for the other areas is a while away.


Base question: If I go to colours(only place local) and get some PPG paint mixed up. I saw you should mix ALL the paint for a metallic job at once.
How long will it last if I use only a little on the engine bay and need the rest for next spring or late winter? OR. should I just get a little for the engine bay... then when i'm ready get some for the car?
 
PUNISHER VETTE;40546 said:
Base question: If I go to colours(only place local) and get some PPG paint mixed up. I saw you should mix ALL the paint for a metallic job at once.
How long will it last if I use only a little on the engine bay and need the rest for next spring or late winter? OR. should I just get a little for the engine bay... then when i'm ready get some for the car?
Click to expand...
Shine's method is to have enough base mixed up to do the whole car (usually at least a gallon) and once it is thoroughly stirred (not just shaken), split the batch into quarts. Home Depot and lots of other places sell empty quart paint cans for around $3 each. This is a great idea, especially if you have a quart left over -- never know when you'll need a perfect match for a repair.
 
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