Considering Waterborne

bill3337

bill3337

Member
Hi,

I'm a home hobbiest car builder and painter and am about ready to start spraying topcoats on my '37 Ford Slantback. I had intended to use solvent borne base, but am now wondering about waterborne. I have a reasonable heated booth at home, but not the ventilation for drying that is recommended. The time to dry isn't a problem for me, but what other considerations might make it a poor choice for an amateur painter. I do have a nice Iwata gun suitable for waterborne as well as solvent based materials. Thanks, Bill
 
It can be done but the flash time between coats of waterborne basecoat is very long if you don't have good airflow.
 
I don't know how many posters here are familiar with waterborne basecoat. I know Barry isn't real fond of it (calls it house paint, lol), however he has stated SPI clears are compatible with waterborne. I have heard nothing but good things about Spies Hecker Hi-Tec and Standox Standoblue (I believe they are the same product with different branding). The only problem I can foresee is that you won't get as many answers to questions about waterborne product, but I don't think there is anything that should stop you from using it if you want to.

Once my paint store has a mixing bench with either of those two products, I'm going to give it a try, but they say it's not going to be anytime soon. I live in a sort of backwater, which has its good and bad points.
 
You need clean dry air, be prepared for dirt nibs in the basecoat because it will stay wet longer, don't use water to denib the base between coats-solvent based wax and grease romover works. My Son shot some PPG Envirobase in my shop, just a two panel repair, it worked but it sure was slow between coats-nothing I would want to do a complete with unless I had to. No stores in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan are supplying mixed waterborne over the counter but they do stock the shops with tints that have their own mixing systems.
 
Agree with Bob 100%. I work @ a shop in mn, we just switched to water a little over a month ago. Love the color match way better, but adjusting to how it looks while spraying takes gets some getting used to. We are ppg certified so we have all the toners in house. I will stress the need for a very large compressor, as you will use tons of air using air multipliers. get ready to spend alot of time waiting or working on other projects. i'd love to use some spi clear over it though bc i have been having alot of dieback issues spraying the deltrons series clears over it( in a production setting). keep it considered though, just a matter of time before they find a way to limit almost all solvent based. sucks to say:(it but i believe its inevidible.
 
Cant see any benefit as far as price, color, application or durability for you, ONLY problems....sorry, I wouldn't do it
 
Shine and Flynams are right. For the diy'er it's way smarter to stay solvent as long as you can.
 
Where the OP lives, it might be the only legal option.

I haven't heard or seen widespread evidence of waterborne base causing early failures, but would be grateful for any information from anyone who knows otherwise, like photos or links, etc.
 
crashtech;27835 said:
Where the OP lives, it might be the only legal option.

I haven't heard or seen widespread evidence of waterborne base causing early failures, but would be grateful for any information from anyone who knows otherwise, like photos or links, etc.
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I remember recently seeing another post that was very similiar to this one: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/what-hell-happened-paintjob-205276.html

DSC_9916.JPG
 
i know this car . it deserves the very best . having a problem on a collision repair is no big deal but with this kind of cars it is not an option .
 
crashtech;27835 said:
Where the OP lives, it might be the only legal option.

I haven't heard or seen widespread evidence of waterborne base causing early failures, but would be grateful for any information from anyone who knows otherwise, like photos or links, etc.
Click to expand...

It isn't widespread failure....just extremely hard to pull off without experience and a booth...if it is necessary legally, I would use solvent base and ask for forgiveness if anyone can tell the difference to give him a hard time...paintwork is hard enough, and you need everything possible in your favor to get the best result...waterborne isn't
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. It helps to have you pros offer good advice. That's the problem with us amateurs, we don't know enough to make educated decisions about some things. I have all the equipment and materials for solvent borne, but started to wonder if the waterborne might give a clearer color. I've got a pint of waterborne I may spray to see what I get, but I'll stay with the solvent borne for the '37. This is my second paint job, so I wouldn't have to get rid of old habits to try the waterborne, but I'll stick with what I know. My first paint job by the way won a best paint award in the Portland Roadster show, so even us amateurs can fool the experts sometimes....lol. Thanks again, Bill
 
If you can get solvent borne, it is probably the safest option, and the dos and don'ts regarding its usage are very well known here on the forum, so any problems you have can be addressed.

I do think many of the objections raised regarding waterborne basecoats stem from an earlier generation of the product which is now rapidly being phased out. I've heard nothing but good about the two brands of new technology water base that I mentioned.

NOT to say you should use it, but just for the record.

@SOF, don't you think that photo is pretty obviously an application error?

I remember working in shops in the eighties that still shot lacquer on repair work, so resistant were they to change. I guess the jury is still out on whether waterborne is an advancement or not, history will be the judge. But we may well end up looking back on this era with disbelief at our reluctance to go along with the change.

I have a hard time believing that high-end companies like Standox and Spies would put out a product that couldn't stand the test of time when used properly. My sense is that those Germans are too prideful and meticulous to allow that. Could be wrong, just my 2¢...
 
crashtech;27852 said:
If you can get solvent borne, it is probably the safest option, and the dos and don'ts regarding its usage are very well known here on the forum, so any problems you have can be addressed.

I do think many of the objections raised regarding waterborne basecoats stem from an earlier generation of the product which is now rapidly being phased out. I've heard nothing but good about the two brands of new technology water base that I mentioned.

NOT to say you should use it, but just for the record.

@SOF, don't you think that photo is pretty obviously an application error?

I remember working in shops in the eighties that still shot lacquer on repair work, so resistant were they to change. I guess the jury is still out on whether waterborne is an advancement or not, history will be the judge. But we may well end up looking back on this era with disbelief at our reluctance to go along with the change.

I have a hard time believing that high-end companies like Standox and Spies would put out a product that couldn't stand the test of time when used properly. My sense is that those Germans are too prideful and meticulous to allow that. Could be wrong, just my 2¢...
Click to expand...





Not against it at all.....just needs more experience and equipment than the op appears to have...and a Portland Roadster show win with solvent base first time out would suggest he has it figured out
 
you have to see bills coupe . he does not give himself enough credit . the 37 he and his bud are building is absolutely bad ass. they have worked their butts off on this thing . besides it belongs to mama and it damn well better be right or bill will not need to worry about paint .... :)
as far as water is concerned it's ok for collision work but i will pass on using it on a high end car .
 
We have a lot of experience with our clears over water-base in California and Canada, the only issues we have had is where a smaller shop tries to use it, that does not have the proper dryers and as soon as you spray the clear, you get a white spot where the base has not flashed and at that point you will be striping all the clear.

To the OP, in California an unlicensed person (not a shop) can use solvent and Canada copied the CA law, so you may check and see if you can use solvent and get it shipped., I have not checked but have been told by a number of people that you can.
 
Just to play devils advocate, if I can, the 2013 riddler winner is in ppg envirobase and most of the high end builders are using water. But they are trained thoroughly to use the product and have been for years.

For a novice though, I would still vote solvent all day long.

:p:p
 
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