Considering Waterborne

Door reflection

Shine,

Thanks for the compliments Shine. The advantage I have over you pro's is I don't have to worry about how long it takes or how much it costs, so I just take as long as it takes to get the type of work I want. I always liked this picture of a buddy sitting on my running board, it does show the finish well. Thanks again, Bill Door reflection.jpg
 
crashtech;27852 said:
If you can get solvent borne, it is probably the safest option, and the dos and don'ts regarding its usage are very well known here on the forum, so any problems you have can be addressed.

I do think many of the objections raised regarding waterborne basecoats stem from an earlier generation of the product which is now rapidly being phased out. I've heard nothing but good about the two brands of new technology water base that I mentioned.

NOT to say you should use it, but just for the record.

@SOF, don't you think that photo is pretty obviously an application error?

I remember working in shops in the eighties that still shot lacquer on repair work, so resistant were they to change. I guess the jury is still out on whether waterborne is an advancement or not, history will be the judge. But we may well end up looking back on this era with disbelief at our reluctance to go along with the change.

I have a hard time believing that high-end companies like Standox and Spies would put out a product that couldn't stand the test of time when used properly. My sense is that those Germans are too prideful and meticulous to allow that. Could be wrong, just my 2¢...
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Maybe I misunderstood your question. Were you talking long term or? The picture I posted is waterborne under solvent clear. I understand the failure was due to not letting the base dry enough. I considered that a unique failure related to waterborne, but probably isnt.
 
I shouldn't keep beating this dead horse, but I'm just not certain the bias against waterborne basecoats is deserved, especially when it comes to the new stuff. The stuff covers very well (2 coats max in most cases, I am told) and is not reversible when dry. SPI recommends the base sit overnight; adhering to this procedure would eliminate any problem with waterborne relating to flash times.

I'm gonna test drive the new Standoblue as soon as I can get my hands on some here. I just don't see why this new stuff is necessarily worse than the old solvent base, which we all admit is just a solvent reversible glorified lacquer anyway.
 
crashtech;27911 said:
I shouldn't keep beating this dead horse, but I'm just not certain the bias against waterborne basecoats is deserved, especially when it comes to the new stuff. The stuff covers very well (2 coats max in most cases, I am told) and is not reversible when dry. SPI recommends the base sit overnight; adhering to this procedure would eliminate any problem with waterborne relating to flash times.

I'm gonna test drive the new Standoblue as soon as I can get my hands on some here. I just don't see why this new stuff is necessarily worse than the old solvent base, which we all admit is just a solvent reversible glorified lacquer anyway.
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As far as coverage it would depend on the brand, I used PPG's envirobase for about 3 months in Las Vegas during the summer, and coverage required far more than 2 coats on the reds, bright blues, and some other colors. There's a Spies Hecker you tube video where they compare themselves agains PPG water and SH does cover much much faster than PPG, so your itch for trying Standox water should give you closer to a real 2 coat coverage I suppose.

From the little I sprayed it during that time, for collision work it does make life easier on certain colors, other than that I dont know, it can be finicky to denib and have to treat it with more care than the solvent stuff.
 
crashtech;27911 said:
I shouldn't keep beating this dead horse, but I'm just not certain the bias against waterborne basecoats is deserved, especially when it comes to the new stuff. The stuff covers very well (2 coats max in most cases, I am told) and is not reversible when dry. SPI recommends the base sit overnight; adhering to this procedure would eliminate any problem with waterborne relating to flash times.

I'm gonna test drive the new Standoblue as soon as I can get my hands on some here. I just don't see why this new stuff is necessarily worse than the old solvent base, which we all admit is just a solvent reversible glorified lacquer anyway.
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Do you have the setup to use it properly?, as no one has bashed the product, just what it takes for the doit yourselfer, no mater how good, to pull of a job...especially as good as the OP did on his first try.....doit yourselfers may think that they can get by with waterborne....they can't with results equal to a garage done solvent base...that's all anyone is saying
 
flynams;27915 said:
Do you have the setup to use it properly?, as no one has bashed the product, just what it takes for the doit yourselfer, no mater how good, to pull of a job...especially as good as the OP did on his first try.....doit yourselfers may think that they can get by with waterborne....they can't with results equal to a garage done solvent base...that's all anyone is saying
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This is my concern with someone not set up to spray it.

I have my garage set up pretty good and won't think twice about spraying an allover tri-coat but I would never attempt a water-base.

Now the major question I have??? I talk to a lot of do-it -yourself that get trash in the base and want to know how and when they can re-sand the whole car.
So how bad will that be if the base is water?? From what I been told it better be the size of a hand print or good luck????
 
JORGE hit it on the head as far as denibing goes. I've had to denib for multiple reasons, trash, and actually had a coupler came loose and spit waterbase all over a hood:mad-new:. You want to talk about a fiasco, i called the supplier about fixing it, pretty much a lost cause. Can say fixing an oopsie in water is nightmare, nd these were just a few spots on 1 hood. I would die if i had to denib a complete, I wish luck to anyone doing a complete in water.

Someone, somewhere, may have the correct way to do it. but I haven't found a good way yet.(and i have to use it everyday)
 
Sorry to have been an idiot about this, good to have a voice of actual experience to inform me of this fool's errand. :eek:
 
crashtech;27918 said:
Sorry to have been an idiot about this, good to have a voice of actual experience to inform me of this fool's errand. :eek:
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You're absolutely not an idiot and I have the highest respect for you and your work...I spent over 100K to do waterborne properly and we use it some in repair work...however, I will still use solvent base on an all over or one of my Vettes...I have heard about the clarity and depth of waterborne and all the marketing...maybe...I still think the quality of the work and the quality of the material is what gets a reflection like the OP...No one cares what system you personally use, just when you get a result like that, all 8 cylinders had to be firing all the way through...course, SPI stuff will get you there easier...I was worried about someone reading here and trying waterborne in their garage...I don't believe anyone would come close to the job the OP got previously with waterborne in their garage...and I will say this, you will have a hell of a time switching or repairing a waterborne mess...My advise...if you aren't set up with the latest waterborne equipment, don't use it....period...course, I'm old and mostly full of sh@t and pretty opinionated with advise only worth what you paid for it....crash, your all right with me
 
Sometimes I find myself being contrary just for the sake of it... usually doesn't end well.

Thanks for the kind words, fly, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

I may revisit this issue if I get some firsthand knowledge of Standoblue. Until then, piehole only for eating pie, or crow...
 
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