Newbie with two epoxy questions

D

DWinTX

Member
Hi all, I'm restoring my first car and had run across so many posts on various forums about SPI that I thought I'd try their stuff. Got some universal clear and epoxy primer. Several months ago I had the car blasted and epoxy primed. I've done the body work and will be painting soon. It's a Mustang and I wanted to duplicate the red oxide primer look for the bottom so I bought the red SPI epoxy.

When I ordered it the guy at SPI said to just scuff the epoxy on there now with a Scotch-Brite pad and shoot the red epoxy over it. I just read the instructions on the epoxy and it says to only use the waterborne wax and grease remover before spraying. I didn't order that so I don't have any here and I wanted to shoot this weekend.

How critical is using this waterborne W&G Remover? I just have some solvent based that I bought at the auto parts store. Do I need to wait and order the SPI stuff? If I do, could I still scuff the undercarriage this weekend and clean and shoot it next weekend, or do I need to scuff it just before shooting?

The other question I had was about inducing the primer. What does that mean? Just letting it sit after mixing with activator?

Thanks for your help. I tried calling SPI with these questions but they're closed for the holiday.
 
Solvent cleaner will be OK. I would be more concerned about the brand you have... You really should be using a quality automotive grade cleaner. What do you have?

As for incuding, let it sit for atleast 30 minutes after mixing. Here is a thread explaining why to induce: http://www.spiuserforum.com/showthread.php?958-Epoxy-update

The epoxy will still work fine not inducing, but for best performance this is what barry recommends.
 
some guys use dawn dish soap and water. i like waterbase w&g remover more than solvent based(especially over auto parts store stuff, what brand?). if youre not in a hurry wait. get some good cleaner. do not scuff before cleaning, it will make it harder to clean. you want your surface squeaky clean, then scuff with new pad. blow, gently tack off then spray. epoxy likes warmer weather to cure properly. inducing is what you said, letting sit after mixing and mixing a bit more, letting the chemicals blend together. way more experienced guys than i here will eventually answer. post pics! have you used a paint gun yet?
 
Thanks for the info guys. I have been using Duplicolor Wax and Grease Remover. I didn't really know that there was that much difference in the quality of them. I asked the resto shop that did the blasting and initial epoxy and they said it was OK.

Main reason I wanted to do it this weekend is that here in North Texas we're having unseasonably warm weather. It's about 63 out there now and supposed to be just as nice tomorrow. I can wait if I have to, but if I could just use Dawn, maybe I'll do that.

I have used a paint gun, though I'm pretty new at it. I have a Devilbiss Finishline that I've been using to shoot Slick Sand to get the panels straight. I plan to use it for the epoxy as well as I have a 1.5 tip for it. I am getting a Devilbiss Plus for the base/clear.
 
i personally like the waterbase because its easier to wipe off and feel there is less room for error than not wiping all the solvent w&g remover off, but thats just me.
 
Who knows what Duplicolor puts in their solvent. Even if it gets you through this time, I would get some SPI 700 for the next time. Like Jeremy said, any quality automotive w/g remover will work.
 
1.5 is too small for slick sand without reduction. More like 1.8-2.2 is better. Have fun with the Plus and use the 1.4. The cup liners work great and are easier to clean up....try them.
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear on the tips. I ordered the Finishline with a 2.2 tip for the Slick Sand, but later bought additional 1.5 and 1.8 tips for shooting other primers. And I do use the liners. I agree, they're great.

I will get some of the SPI remover. I didn't even know about SPI when I did most of the body work, but I sure don't want to risk anything on an inferior cleaner.

Thanks for the help.
 
If not to late, I would prefer you just scuff the epoxy, tack and shoot and not use the W+G you have or clean with soap and water if you want.

Most critical would have been the cleaning of the bare metal, that is where the 700 cleaner is so important.
 
Hi Barry, I already cleaned it with the W&G remover yesterday. I was going to scuff and shoot today or tomorrow. So I guess we'll see what happens..

I'm putting together a temporary paint booth, with PVC, plastic sheeting, fans and filters. I hope to start painting the panels next weekend. I also purchased some of your white epoxy that I'm going to reduce and use as a sealer, then basecoat and your Universal Clear. Right now the body is blocked level with 180. My plan is to do a final sanding with 400, blow off with compressed air, clean with your waterborne W&G, seal with the epoxy, then spray the base/clear. Is that the correct process?

I've also been wondering something else. The car is completely stripped to a shell. The hood, doors, trunk lid and fenders are off and I'll be painting them all separately. If I don't get it all done in one weekend, is there any danger that different weather conditions on different weekends may cause any problems? The booth will be outside, so I wouldn't paint if it was raining or anything, but like i said earlier this weekend we're having 60-70 degrees, but next weekend it might be in the 45-55 range.
 
do not shoot epoxy unless over 60 degrees, and i personally prefer it even warmer. i use heat lamps when safe.
 
I've never used any w&g grease remover as good as the SPI water based stuff. I will never use the solvent stuff ever again, seems fisheyes always appear when i use it, water based, no problems. SPI's water based W&G remover also cleans overspray off of glasses great!
 
do not shoot epoxy unless over 60 degrees, and i personally prefer it even warmer. i use heat lamps when safe.
Click to expand...

What happens if it's less than 60? Does it not cure? What about basecoat/clearcoat? Can that be sprayed when it's colder? Though we don't get really bad winters here, I probably don't have a lot of 60+ days left. I guess I do have the option of building my booth in the garage. I have a heater in there that will warm the place up pretty well. It's just a pretty tight squeeze and I have to move a LOT of stuff around.
 
Temperature is more important with epoxy, then any other product, can be a major problem, so I would want it 60-65 or higher.
 
OK, looks like today is the last 60+ day for a few days, at least according to the weather predictions. I had an unrelated delay this morning and didn't get anything done. So my next question is about the "scuffing". If I spend the rest of today, tomorrow and Monday scuffing, which is time consuming considering all of the nooks and crannies on the interior, underside and engine bay, will it be OK to let it sit a few days before I shoot it? Is the scuffing just to rough up the surface or is it also to remove the top layer of material? Once I scuff it how long can I wait before I have to scuff again?
 
Scuffing is for texture so the next application of material will have something to adhere to, no issues with time but make sure the surface is cleaned well before you apply more material.
 
HVAC Phil;15410 said:
I've never used any w&g grease remover as good as the SPI water based stuff. I will never use the solvent stuff ever again, seems fisheyes always appear when i use it, water based, no problems. SPI's water based W&G remover also cleans overspray off of glasses great!
Click to expand...

Does it work on safety glasses? If so, that would be a really useful tip. Thanks!
 
Bob Hollinshead;15422 said:
Scuffing is for texture so the next application of material will have something to adhere to, no issues with time but make sure the surface is cleaned well before you apply more material.
Click to expand...
Thats because its cured epoxy, right Bob? Wouldn't be true for other types of paint in the uncured state? I think this has been discussed before, but just to make it clear.
 
Wouldn't be true for other types of paint in the uncured state?
I look at it this way: In the old days we used 1K lacquer products that melted together with each application because they were soluable-texture was not real important because of they way these products melted together and time was not an issue because they were always soluable. Theoretically you could strip all the 1K lacquer primer and paint off of a car, add lacquer thinner and spray it all back on.
Today we have 2K products that rely on mechanical grip for adhesion so these products need to be applied over a surface that has the appropriate texture for grip/adhesion. 2K products will bond together and also accept 1K products without the need for texturing/scuffing/sanding if they haven't reached full cure-this is the recoat window. Any 2K product that has gone past it's recoat window will require texturing/scuffing/sanding before more material is applied.
Sanding a cured primer surface and letting it set for weeks before recoating is not an issue as long as cleanliness is maintained-it's real easy for open scratches to gather contaminants. Clean it and if in doubt just give it another quick scuff-not a big deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top