Opinions on paint brand choice

Paintsalot

New Member
Is TCP Global restoration shop base coats worth using or should I stick with Cromax Chromabase? The color is going to be Acapulco Blue going on a 1969 Mustang. I have used both brands painting road bikes but not a full car. I am using SPI Epoxy and clearing with Universal Clear. This car when finished will not see much sunlight, it has only put on about 400 miles in the last 33 years. Thank you for any replies.
 

Jim C

Oldtimer
tcp doesnt make paint. its some bottom line crap that they put their label on. i would never use that crap. anything is better than the private label stuff. the chromax stuff is ok quality wise but it doesnt cover worth a crap and expensive so it wouldnt be my first choice. the motobase is fine, cheaper and will cover much better.
 

old sarge

Member
tcp doesnt make paint. its some bottom line crap that they put their label on. i would never use that crap. anything is better than the private label stuff. the chromax stuff is ok quality wise but it doesnt cover worth a crap and expensive so it wouldnt be my first choice. the motobase is fine, cheaper and will cover much better.
Did you use to use Wanda ? do you still use it ? I did a high end job a few years back with it and loved it . I would like to use it my 69 Vette that I will have to let some one else shoot . 70 yrs old and lungs are shot.
 

Jim C

Oldtimer
Did you use to use Wanda ? do you still use it ? I did a high end job a few years back with it and loved it . I would like to use it my 69 Vette that I will have to let some one else shoot . 70 yrs old and lungs are shot.

Yes still use it every day. Its a great base. Only reason i didnt recommend it is because akzo hardly has any formulas for classic cars. He most likely would not find that in wanda, lesonal or sikkens.

68, thats funny. I guess its all what you are used to. I have never shot a base in all the years i have been painting that was a 1:1 mix so i dont think anything of it. Everything has always been 2:1
 
I have never shot a base in all the years i have been painting that was a 1:1 mix so i dont think anything of it. Everything has always been 2:1
Im the opposite. Ive only used 1:1 bases. Thats interesting.

As far as the TCP paint, ive never used it. Funny thing is, ive got a quart of TCP single stage sitting around that a friend gave me. He bought it to paint a golf cart but never got around to using it. I plan to try it on a golf cart body as well. (I build a few golf carts on the side).
 
68, thats funny. I guess its all what you are used to. I have never shot a base in all the years i have been painting that was a 1:1 mix so i dont think anything of it. Everything has always been 2:1
Garage hacks like myself count pennies when buying materials. When I only get 6 quarts of RTS paint out of gallon of base I feel like a got cheated. LOL
 

Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
It always amazes me what people will spend money on and what they try to skimp on when doing a vehicle. Use what you want but Jim is correct. And yes you did a nice job on the fender(?) but I can tell from looking at the pic that the base is a lower end product. How? The metallic is not very distinct, kinda muddy. Low quality metallic flake and the binder is low end as well. Notice the clumpiness and blotchiness of the metallic? (again not because of you or spray technique) That's because of the binder and the metallic.
With a higher quality base, the metallic is much more distinct and cleaner. That's nothing reflecting on you or the job you did, (nice) it's the product. Cheap products are cheap for a reason. Lower quality materials are used. Binders, metallics, all are going to be lower quality. Minimal UV protection. Seen low end bases used under premium clears where the base fades but the clear is shiny. Lots of times a cheap base covers so poorly that you need to use 2x as much product to get coverage. So you end up saving nothing.
Obviously you are free to do what you want, but you would be far better off using a quality base and spend a few hundred more rather than cheaping out on the low end stuff. Considering the amount of labor involved with bodywork and prep, it's a no brainer really.
 

Paintsalot

New Member
It always amazes me what people will spend money on and what they try to skimp on when doing a vehicle. Use what you want but Jim is correct. And yes you did a nice job on the fender(?) but I can tell from looking at the pic that the base is a lower end product. How? The metallic is not very distinct, kinda muddy. Low quality metallic flake and the binder is low end as well. Notice the clumpiness and blotchiness of the metallic? (again not because of you or spray technique) That's because of the binder and the metallic.
With a higher quality base, the metallic is much more distinct and cleaner. That's nothing reflecting on you or the job you did, (nice) it's the product. Cheap products are cheap for a reason. Lower quality materials are used. Binders, metallics, all are going to be lower quality. Minimal UV protection. Seen low end bases used under premium clears where the base fades but the clear is shiny. Lots of times a cheap base covers so poorly that you need to use 2x as much product to get coverage. So you end up saving nothing.
Obviously you are free to do what you want, but you would be far better off using a quality base and spend a few hundred more rather than cheaping out on the low end stuff. Considering the amount of labor involved with bodywork and prep, it's a no brainer really.
I'm not trying to skimp on base coat, I have just never used any high end base coats. When I do painting for anyone , I have them pick what paint they want and that's what I get to spray is the cheap stuff. I use SPI Epoxy and Universal Clear on everything but when it comes to the base coat, I use what they buy. Now it's time to finally get my own car done and just needed some input on base coat paints. Again, I'm not trying to skimp on base paint, I just need to know what works and looks good from the people who spray automotive paint.
 

elwood

Registered Users
Usually cheaper base is thinner requiring more coats to be put on to achieve coverage. That requires more reducer as well as the time to do it. By the time you add in the extra paint and reducer used as well as the time spent you really haven't saved as much as you think. It all goes back to the old saying "you can't get something for nothing." Chris Hamilton is exactly right with what he has said. Sad part is some people paint for years and never realize the reality of what he has just outlined. This forum is the best in that true professionals, people who do this stuff every day, are willing to share their knowledge and experience with others. At one time in my life I didn't understand the differences in everything used. So we've all been where you are. Sometimes the paint reps didn't even know the answers to the questions they were asked. Every paint company has their different pricing levels. Usually the higher cost base is the better quality. In the past when something really mattered I used chromabase or diamont or dbc because that's what was available locally. Hope this helps you in some way.
 
No one is slighting you. You asked for "opinions on paint brand choice" and you are getting some very good and detailed answers to your question.
I am not a professional like JimC, Chris Hamilton and Crashtech but I have experience in doing things the wrong way and using the wrong products. I tried the low end, cheap paint products at first for the same reason many others do - the cost of brand name paints.
My thinking was, the cheap stuff is made by the same people who make the expensive stuff so it must be the same. However after bad experiences with Omni and Shopline I began buying PPG and RM Diamont (BASF) products. The difference in coverage and application was noticeable immediately while spraying but the cost - ouch! This led me to search online for quality paints at affordable prices. My search to replace PPG DPLF epoxy primer led me to SPI and I have never left (even though some may wish I did). The primers and clears sold here are top notch and reasonably priced.
It was while here that I learned of other base coats that were also quality products that are more reasonably priced. They are not bargain basement cheap but not astronomically priced either.
 
I cant provide a lot of input because ive mainly only used PPG bases. Ive been using them since I started, and theyve always performed well. Even when I was learning, and unknowingly did lots of things wrong, i have never had any issues. I generally use their mid grade base which is the omni plus or shopline plus. Ive experienced good coverage, smooth application and good matches using prime variants. Ill only use the deltron line if a color isnt available in plus. Sometimes ive had better matches in plus versus deltron on the same color.
Im not a ppg spokesperson and im not a pro painter, and im sure there are much better products on the market but im just sharing what ive have good luck with.
On another note, I worked for a automotive salvage company years back that also occasionally rebuilt cars. I wasnt the painter there but the painter used a lot of Nason because it was cheap and we generally built cheaper cars. But I was never impressed with the Nason line of bases.
Another note concerning coverage, i usually use tinted sealers prior to base to acheive coverage easier. That way I use less base because sealer is a lot cheaper than base. By doing this; A lot of times on a standard color, (white, black, etc) with the exception of metallics and pearls of course, i can get a way with only one coat of base. Less work for me, less money, less time, and less material build.
 
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Paintsalot

New Member
Wasn't trying to insult you, hope you didn't take it that way.
No offense taken. I'm glad that I am getting this amount of feed back, it will help me on choosing a quality paint for my base coat that has worked well for others on this site. I'm not new to painting, I have been spraying conveyor systems and military equipment for 33 years, just not much of automotive. Again, thank you for any and all replies.
 

Chris_Hamilton

Trying to be the best me, I can be
I cant provide a lot of input because ive mainly only used PPG bases. Ive been using them since I started, and theyve always performed well. Even when I was learning, and unknowingly did lots of things wrong, i have never had any issues. I generally use their mid grade base which is the omni plus or shopline plus. Ive experienced good coverage, smooth application and good matches using prime variants. Ill only use the deltron line if a color isnt available in plus. Sometimes ive had better matches in plus versus deltron on the same color.
Im not a ppg spokesperson and im not a pro painter, and im sure there are much better products on the market but im just sharing what ive have good luck with.
On another note, I worked for a automotive salvage company years back that also occasionally rebuilt cars. I wasnt the painter there but the painter used a lot of Nason because it was cheap and we generally built cheaper cars. But I was never impressed with the Nason line of bases.
Another note concerning coverage, i usually use tinted sealers prior to base to acheive coverage easier. That way I use less base because sealer is a lot cheaper than base. By doing this; A lot of times on a standard color, (white, black, etc) with the exception of metallics and pearls of course, i can get a way with only one coat of base. Less work for me, less money, less time, and less material build.
Sometimes I can come across as a little too blunt. This is not directed toward you, just want to make you and any others who may not be aware, aware. Omni Plus and Shopline are low quality bases. Same sort of bases I talked about in my post above. I have a lot of experience with PPG over the years and with shooting Omni+ at one particular shop I worked at. Not by choice but because I had too. Used a lot of it. Eventually we switched to Cromax. Shopline is Omni+ just a name change PPG did to get people who wouldn't use Omni anymore to use Omni again.:)
Color match is ok, not the greatest but ok if you can blend decently. That being said there were some cars I had to use DBC for because the Omni formula was so off or they did not have a particular variant formula. Never saw it the other way around. The metallic is low grade. An example would be a 2015 Subaru WRX I did. WRX Blue and while the shade was close enough to blend the metallic was completely off. OEM Subie metallic was bright and clean. Omni it was muddy and did not match. I found that to be the case many many times using Omni+. Lots of stuff I did with it I could see the difference in the base even with a perfect blend. Piss poor coverage as well. Still cheaper than DBC which is why it gets used so much but nowhere near the quality of DBC (and there are better quality bases than DBC). On that Subie WRX I ended up re-doing it with DBC and the metallic matched perfectly. Omni+ will also fade under a clearcoat. Just a cheap base that while fine for used car dealer work, and low end collision, has no place in high end collision repair or restoration work.
Nason IMO is marginally better but still in the same category as Omni.
 
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