Solvent and Waterbase Cleaners

What I use is thick polyethylene plastic that is at least 6 mils thick. What this thickness allows, compared to thinner plastic, is it doesn't cling to metal as much so air can circulate. When I place my parts in the large banana bags I crumple the bag first. This will help prevent the plastic from laying flat on the surface. The 6 mil plastic will easily distort this way which is why I use it and never had any problems with parts sitting in them for months in a low humidity room. The bags are also much larger than the items inside them so there is plenty of 'breathing room' between the part and bag. If you use a plastic sheet that is thinner, like under 1 mil which is typical to a painters drop cloth, then it will definitely cling to the surface much like a silk sheet and not allow air to circulate. This is what I have seen people do (plastic laying flat) especially on roofs and hoods and is definitely a cause for problems. Punching holes or cutting slits in the thicker plastic will allow air to circulate also.
Another option for long term parts storage if you wanted it covered would also be bed sheets. I've done that successfully as well when I stored epoxied and primed parts in a shed for months. But, I like plastic because I can handle the parts and not have to worry about skin or even airborne contaminants from getting on the surface.
 
Still not worth the risk IMO, plastic is plastic some are thicker some thinner, some have a film on them some don't but none breath and all can trap humidity in one extreme or another so I say no, not a good idea. If it was they would make car covers out of it but they don't every car cover is breathable for a reason, food for thought.
 
So if you have epoxy or 2k primed parts in storage are you saying dont cover? if months go by, clean sand clean and og to next step?
 
That's what I'm saying, not worth the risk to cover with plastic for any real length of time. If I spraying something around the part then covering it until the air clears is one thing but to cover it and leave it,,, NO.
 
MikeS;n81684 said:
Isopropyl alcohol works very good at eliminating organics such as skin oils. We used it when cleaning magnetic media surfaces in electronics. It should be 90% or greater though to evaporate fast and it leaves no residue behind. I generally follow up with that after a solvent base wipe (ex: DX330) on all surfaces starting with bare metal. I don't apply anything wet to filler on purpose however as a rule and if I do get some on it in preparation to epoxy and/or primer, I let it dry over night if necessary. I wear thin Harbor Freight nitrile gloves to keep skin oils off the work.
Even though I'm new to BC/CC (was a SS guy), I used solvent and alcohol at every step up to base, but not base to topcoat. Using alcohol gives a new meaning to "squeaky clean". :) You have to feel it to know what I'm talking about.
Mike
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Mike, when you use a 90% or greater mixture of Isopropyl Alcohol, do you mix it with water to suspend the contaminants long enough to be wiped off the surface you are cleaning?
 
Hello Outlaw,

No mixing with water is necessary. I use it right out of the bottle and 90% isopropyl alcohol dries very fast so I immediately follow up with a dry pad.
Contaminants like body sweat are polar so isopropyl alcohol dissolves it very well. I read there are now water based versions of w&g removers that are supposed to remove both polar and non-polar contaminants. When I use up my DX300 cans I'll give the SPI water based w&g remover a try. The smell of alcohol in a closed room can get to you after a while.

Mike
 
MikeS;n82182 said:
Hello Outlaw,

No mixing with water is necessary. I use it right out of the bottle and 90% isopropyl alcohol dries very fast so I immediately follow up with a dry pad.
Contaminants like body sweat are polar so isopropyl alcohol dissolves it very well. I read there are now water based versions of w&g removers that are supposed to remove both polar and non-polar contaminants. When I use up my DX300 cans I'll give the SPI water based w&g remover a try. The smell of alcohol in a closed room can get to you after a while.

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike, what you are doing for the electronic parts are perfect but would never work for full adhesion on outside of car, doing 70 MPH, interior parts maybe, if cool enough and small pieces.
Bare metal is different and that is why we don't use solvent cleaners as a primary clean but a follow up.
 
Hi Barry,

I'm confused about what you wrote: "Bare metal is different and that is why we don't use solvent clears as a primary clean but a follow up." What is a solvent clear?

Mike
 
Thanks for pointing out, doing to many things at once. Solvent cleaners like my 710 or ppg 330.
 
Ah...OK. I thought that is what you meant. So you would not recommend DX330 for cleaning bare metal prior to paint?
My metal cleaning process is a basic:
* wash with soap&water
* DX330
* sand to bare metal (some cases with odd shapes I use a chemical stripper followed by a neutralizing wash. Not often but I do it at times)
* DX330
* alcohol (remove any possible organics like body sweat)
* epoxy
Based on your comment about not using a solvent on bare metal, what would you suggest?

Mike
 
Mike, I consider my 710 better than the 330 (my opinion) but would never say use the 710 first, the 700 waterborne will do in one swipe, what could take the 710 4 to 7 times depending what is on the metal or in the pours.
 
Well my plan is to phase out PPG in favor for SPI which I have been doing so far. Once I use up the DX I'll switch to your 700/710 product line and change my routine to be more up-to-date. I can do that with the 700 line being that uses alcohol so that is one of my process steps I can update.

Thank You,
Mike
 
Can we talk about the waterborne W&G remover followed by solvent based W&G remover a little more? Thanks.
If I use waterborne first followed by solvent based, do I HAVE to wait 30-45 minutes between the two?
If not, how fast can I use one then the other? Is one minute apart too extreme? 10 minutes?
Now, after I use the solvent based and a dry wipe down, how long do I have to wait before I can spray base coat?
Again, is one minute too extreme?
When I'm prepping and painting something I don't have the luxury of time... I need to do one step, do the next, spray the paint etc.
I surely don't want to rush things, but I can't stand around waiting either. I want to get the surfaces as clean and dry as I can in as little time as I can.

Ok, now more questions, sorry.

I did some searching and reading old posts but didn't find the answers. I read through the SPI Tech Manual but it has Very little info on the solvent based cleaner.
When do I use the solvent based cleaner instead waterborne?

Let's take my current situation (well one of them...) I have one week old 2K turbo that I just block sanded yesterday with 400 grit. It is ready for my sealer coat of epoxy :)
It is covered with dry sanding dust. Please don't say take an air hose and blow the dust off... I'll be doing all of the paint work in my tiny garage. Blowing dust everywhere makes the hairs on my back tingle thinking about it. I'll vacuum as much off as I can prior
to cleaning :)
Now, do I use waterborne or solvent based to clean the surface prior to epoxy sealer?
That of course leads to the next question, once epoxy sealer is nub sanded, which cleaner do I used before the base coat is sprayed on?

Thanks in advance
Danford1
 
danford1;n82228 said:
It is covered with dry sanding dust. Please don't say take an air hose and blow the dust off... I'll be doing all of the paint work in my tiny garage. Blowing dust everywhere makes the hairs on my back tingle thinking about it. I'll vacuum as much off as I can prior
to cleaning :)

Thanks in advance
Danford1
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Just a thought. worth what you're paying for it. Once you have vacuumed everything the best you can, it would be good to blow the car off with compressed air before you start painting. As soon as you start using the spray gun, any little pocket of sanding dust the vacuum didn't get will be blown around but now it's going to be mixed with the paint.
 
I do exactly that (blow off car before paint it sprayed). I just don't want to blow piles of sanding dust everywhere.

Let's see if someone can answer this.

If I use waterborne W&G remover first followed by solvent based, do I HAVE to wait 30-45 minutes between the two?
If not, how fast can I use the solvent based after waterborne? Is one minute apart too extreme? 10 minutes?
Now, after I use the solvent based and a dry wipe down, how long do I have to wait before I can spray base coat?
Again, is one minute too extreme?

Thanks
Danford1
 
I've used the 700-1, wipe down the panels. Blow dry it for maybe a minute or more depending on the size of the job. Go back with the 710-1 solvent W&G remover.

Tack and gently blow the panels and start shooting.

2-3 minutes tops?

This is done on a fast paced collision environment and smaller jobs, where the risk of a f-up is not as big and costly as say a full on nice complete paint job.

Haven't had any issues yet, YMMV.

If you're doing more expensive work then I don't really understand the rush, the difference between 1 minute or 5 is not that big in the big picture, slow down a bit and play it safe.

If you're shooting say epoxy on bare metal, then yes follow longer flash times, it is the foundation of your paint job and it could be very costly to rush things. I think the SPI Tech sheets suggest such long flash times to play it safe and to cover their rear end as well.

Your own judgement and a bit of experimentation on your end will give you the answers, IMHO.
 
Thanks Jorge. The rush isn't to rush the job. It is due to very limited time to work on the car. I'm doing it in my garage between the rest of the things one does for ones life.
Let's say I have a two hour window to work on the car before people come to the house for whatever or I need to leave to go wherever.
I know from experience it takes me an hour and 10 minutes to spray a coat on the car. I then need to clean the gun, clean up any mess I made, remove stinky paint cloths, take shower etc and be ready. I can do it all in 2 hours, just barely.
Now throw in standing around waiting 30 -45 minutes for W&G remover to dry and I'm F'ked. I'm not saying this is the exact scenario Every time I work on the car, but a similar
situation is always present.
I like what you have described and did something similar kind of speeding up the process.
Thanks for the response.

Danford1
 
MikeS;n81684 said:
Isopropyl alcohol works very good at eliminating organics such as skin oils. We used it when cleaning magnetic media surfaces in electronics. It should be 90% or greater though to evaporate fast and it leaves no residue behind. I generally follow up with that after a solvent base wipe (ex: DX330) on all surfaces starting with bare metal. I don't apply anything wet to filler on purpose however as a rule and if I do get some on it in preparation to epoxy and/or primer, I let it dry over night if necessary. I wear thin Harbor Freight nitrile gloves to keep skin oils off the work.
Even though I'm new to BC/CC (was a SS guy), I used solvent and alcohol at every step up to base, but not base to topcoat. Using alcohol gives a new meaning to "squeaky clean". :) You have to feel it to know what I'm talking about.
Mike
Click to expand...


"When you say 90% is that the product the way it comes in the container, or is that the mixture of how you purchase it to water (90% product added to 10% water)? If the product is 90% Isopropyl alcohol, how much water do you mix with it?
 
Hi Outlaw,

That's the way it comes when purchased. You can get varying alcohol/water ratios with the less costly being 50/50 to the more expensive at 90/10. Using 90/10 be prepared to have some really strong fumes and fast evaporation rates.

Mike
 
ok Mike, do you use the 90/10 full strength then, followed with a rinse?
 
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