Solvent and Waterbase Cleaners

I use a PPG DX330 W&G remover first followed by the alcohol last and with full strength. I usually have a paper towel in one hand to wipe dry but usually is evaporates quickly and doesn't leave any residue or streaks. Once I use up the DX330 stock I have now I'll switch to the SPI version.
 
I think the 710 does a superior job on removing dressing from plastic and rubber parts. The 700 doesn't touch it.
 
I cant not ask this again. The Perfect Paint Job states, "Bare metal is always best cleaned with 700-1 Waterborne and 710, then let sit 30-60 minutes before applying epoxy. In a recent post, my understanding was this recommendation had been reversed to use 710 followed by 700. Am I spot on or did I misunderstand something?
 
IMO, I don't think it matters. Perhaps the waterborne was recommended first because it evaporates faster so you can follow up sooner with the solvent based cleaner but it still wouldn't negate the need to wait the 30-60 minutes until epoxying however. I've always done DX300 first then when dry followed up with alcohol/water and never experienced any fish-eye issues. Not knowing the exact chemical makeup of the SPI cleaners though, I'd like to see too what Barry says.
I have heard that an alcohol based wipe helps reduce static on the surface but I can't confirm that. I always keep a ground wire connected between the body and compressor ground.
 
Mike, my understanding of a cleaner is to float the contaminates. While they are still suspended in the liquid, a second wipe with a clean towell removes the contaminates. When you use a 90% solution of alcohol that dries so quickly, do you think that is actually suspending the contaminates long enough to be removed from the surface with a follow up wipe? I could be wrong but it seems like diluting the alcohol with water would slow down the evaporation process and be better for removing the contaminates while they are still suspended. What are your thoughts?
 
The last time I called to order waterborne cleaner AND solvent cleaner, they (Andy?) said waterborne is the only thing I need. Can't remember why.
 
My understanding is if you are going to only use one, use the waterborne. I found the thread I was looking for on this issue. Its in "tips and tricks". The post (Bare Metal Prepping/Cleaning for Primer) is the first "sticky" posted by Bob in 2011 and confirmed by Barry a few posts down. The way I read that post, and Barrys confirmation, is 710 then 700. Thats solvent first, waterbourne second. My personal opinion is using them both is the best practice, but if I were to use only one, it would be the 700.
 
Hi Outlaw,

I'm not a chemical engineer but I have researched this topic for a while now but mainly for cleaning delicate optics for astro photography. I think there is some misinformation about 'floating' vs. dissolved. As I understand it, a solvent based cleaner will dissolve, at a molecular level, (not float) nonpolar contaminants such as wax, grease & oils. The idea with a followup wipe to to remove the solution with the dissolved contaminants in it. As for an alcohol based cleaner it will dissolve polar contaminants such as body sweat and saliva. I lost count of how many times I have seen wet saliva specs on my primer surface when blocking while talking to someone in the garage. Those little glands in your mouth can sure spray at times! Yes, the higher the alcohol % the faster it will evaporate but you can easily get around that with lets say 50/50% mixture or soak it more to allow wipe time of the dissolved contaminants, if any. I can see the wax & grease being the much higher percentage of contaminants due to the nature of how we kept our cars paint using these products for years. I have never had fish-eye issues using 90%, which isn't to say that you can't get the same results using a 50/50 blend. I use 90% to clean telescope optics so I can not have any water spots remain that can affect the delicate aluminum coatings on mirrors that cost over $1500 to re-coat. That is why I stock 90% alcohol. I have read how important it is to wipe the solution off while still wet and the theory around it sounds convincing, but honestly, I have not seen any real empirical evidence to show what would happen if the solution with the dissolved contaminants did remain. I'm not brave enough to test those waters!
As for one product to replace a solvent & alcohol based cleaner, I can only think of a lipid based product (lipid as with soap) which can remove both polar and nonpolar contaminants. Barry will have to chime in on that though I'm sure he will not want to give the ingredients away :) This is most likely why Dawn works so well cleaning a panel of contaminants (but not in raw metal of course) because lipids can remove both forms. Hmmmm...I wonder if you can mix the two types of cleaners?
 
As an aside, I found anhydrous isopropyl at my local drug store and it is great for cleaning electronics and my eyeglasses. So it is possible to obtain better than 90% if you want it.

SPI #700 contains ingredients that enable it to dissolve polar and non-polar contaminants, I think.
 
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