SPI SS Red Question

HarleyJack

HarleyJack

J.O.A.T.
Can SPI Single Stage be reduced(thinned)? How much? What do you find typical to shoot well? What is your process to lay it down? Speed etc.?
Fighting orange peel no matter what I do. Reducing would be the last resort as I have tried all the tricks/adjustments I can think of minus going to a 1.8 or thinning.
Imported FLG-5, 3M PPS 2.0 tried no filter and filter, 1.4 tip.
TIA
 
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Barry told me it can be reduced up to 10%. You can also use urethane retarder in warmer weather.

I recently sprayed a bunch of black single stage and it had a little more peel like texture than it has in the past. I was also spraying with a little less air pressure because I was experimenting to see if I could get less wave. I did in fact get less urethane wave so my conclusion was that I would rather have peel texture than the dreaded urethane wave. I also did five coats in one session just to see if I could get away with it… :)

Don
 
HarleyJack said:
Can SPI Single Stage be reduced(thinned)? How much? What do you find typical to shoot well? What is your process to lay it down? Speed etc.?
Fighting orange peel no matter what I do. Reducing would be the last resort as I have tried all the tricks/adjustments I can think of minus going to a 1.8 or thinning.
Imported FLG-5, 3M PPS 2.0 tired no filter and filter, 1.4 tip.
TIA
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What air pressure are you spraying with?
 
dhutton01 said:
What air pressure are you spraying with?
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I tried different pressures. 120 at the wall, but regulated my gun to 25 all the way to 37 at one point. It seemed around 30-32 was best for pattern and atomization...above that seemed to have 0 impact. I do know my first thought when stirring the paint and watching it come off the stick was I felt it was just a touch thick. Not bad, but enough to register. I typically try to follow the tech sheets and no mention of reducing so I erred on the side of caution....my lack of experience maybe.
 
HarleyJack said:
Can SPI Single Stage be reduced(thinned)? How much? What do you find typical to shoot well? What is your process to lay it down? Speed etc.?
Fighting orange peel no matter what I do. Reducing would be the last resort as I have tried all the tricks/adjustments I can think of minus going to a 1.8 or thinning.
Imported FLG-5, 3M PPS 2.0 tired no filter and filter, 1.4 tip.
TIA
Click to expand...
Orange peel indicates not enough fluid. So what I would advise is to tighten overlap to 75% per coat and if neccesary open up your fluid. Reducing it will help but overlap is more important. Tighten overlap to 75%. Watch the paint as it's going on, you want to see the single stage "filling in" where it is hitting the panel. Adjust your speed to achieve that. Less than filled in = orangepeel. More than filled in = runs. Keep the gun parallel, be robotic with your passes.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Orange peel indicates not enough fluid. So what I would advise is to tighten overlap to 75% per coat and if neccesary open up your fluid. Reducing it will help but overlap is more important. Tighten overlap to 75%. Watch the paint as it's going on, you want to see the single stage "filling in" where it is hitting the panel. Adjust your speed to achieve that. Less than filled in = orangepeel. More than filled in = runs. Keep the gun parallel, be robotic with your passes.
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FWIW I don’t think what he is seeing is orange peel caused by too little fluid. Something has changed in the single stage imo. This happened to me several years ago and when I contacted Barry he made some changes to the formula and sent me replacement paint. I just couldn’t get it to lay flat regardless of what I did. Apparently I was not crazy because the replacement paint laid out nice with the same gun settings. This is also when he told me I could use up to 10% reducer or urethane retarder….

At least this is my experience with spraying a fair bit of SPI single stage.

I saw someone of the Facebook SPI page last week who was having the same issue with single stage. He remedied it by adding a little reducer….

Mandatory backyard hack disclaimer inserted here….

Don
 
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dhutton01 said:
FWIW I don’t think what he is seeing is orange peel caused by too little fluid. Something has changed in the single stage imo. This happened to me several years ago and when I contacted Barry he made some changes to the formula and sent me replacement paint. I just couldn’t get it to lay flat regardless of what I did. Apparently I was not crazy because the replacement paint laid out nice with the same gun settings. This is also when he told me I could use up to 10% reducer or urethane retarder….

At least this is my experience with spraying a fair bit of SPI single stage.

I saw someone of the Facebook SPI page last week who was having the same issue with single stage. He remedied it by adding a little reducer….

Mandatory backyard hack disclaimer inserted here….

Don
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Very possible it froze in shipping. Had that happen once, had similar issues and replacement stuff went on perfect. Barry said the issue was it freezing. So yes very possible.
 
Good info, I want to follow this as I have not used SPI SS yet. I would only add that even a small addition of reducer, like 5%, can make a huge difference in some situations, at least that is what I've seen with clear, particularly if a reducer one step slower for conditions is used. I believe that is what I might try first instead of leaping right to 10%.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Orange peel indicates not enough fluid. So what I would advise is to tighten overlap to 75% per coat and if neccesary open up your fluid. Reducing it will help but overlap is more important. Tighten overlap to 75%. Watch the paint as it's going on, you want to see the single stage "filling in" where it is hitting the panel. Adjust your speed to achieve that. Less than filled in = orangepeel. More than filled in = runs. Keep the gun parallel, be robotic with your passes.
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Chris,
I tried what you said and definitely could "See" it. Had I not adjusted my technique the final result would have been horrible. 65% was a bare min. and at times felt like I was almost double passing. I tried everything I knew to do minus reducing it....to me in my limited experience it acted as if I needed more volume.....could not get more fluid as the gun was pretty much full blast on everything. I was actually surprised I could adjust and lay that much paint on(moving so slow) without it running. That may be a tell tale idk.

Crashtech,
I thought that as well. Best to start small than go full on. It was not "bad" orange peel but my goal was to have little to none. Point being 5% may be plenty to achieve the desired goal.

I have plenty more to do so I will try it and give an update. Likely am going to try a test panel or two before moving on to the hood and doors. What is done can be corrected without too much elbow grease I believe.

Thanks for the responses so far.
 
harleyjack, how bout a picture? at least it could make some of us newbs feel better and maybe learn some thing.
last all over i did some years ago, i had a lot of peel. all i have done so far wit SPI is epoxy, and it layed flat. if the single stage lays near that well i will be happy. if not ill be on here trying to figure out what i did wrong.
 
I came across this pic yesterday for all the guys beating themselves up over a little orange peel/texture in their paint. This is Dutch Boys, a high dollar shop. You can see it in the reflections of the lights.

Don
IMG_4083.jpeg
 
dhutton01 said:
I came across this pic yesterday for all the guys beating themselves up over a little orange peel/texture in their paint. This is Dutch Boys, a high dollar shop. You can see it in the reflections of the lights.

Don
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big time clear, big time shop, essentially the same results some backyard hacks on this website achieve...just saying.
 
Man I priced out some dcu2021 the other day at my local jobber. Almost $700 for a gallon kit.

I used to shoot that clear at my old job and I liked it, but damn the cost is just ridiculous.
 
keep in mind that winter months the paint is usually cold. cold paint is always thicker. winter usually requires a few psi higher and maybe addition of some fast reducer. the viscosity difference between 90 deg summer paint and 55 deg winter paint is huge. gun just wont break it up as well.
 
Treeslayer said:
harleyjack, how bout a picture? at least it could make some of us newbs feel better and maybe learn some thing.
last all over i did some years ago, i had a lot of peel. all i have done so far wit SPI is epoxy, and it layed flat. if the single stage lays near that well i will be happy. if not ill be on here trying to figure out what i did wrong.
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I will try to if time allows tongiht. Disclaimer :While pictures help, they are not the end all be all, at least to me as it pertains to paint work. There are so many variables, lighting etc. I am no pro, and don't claim to be. Not to mention this SPI Red is so bright it tends to hide issues with the wow factor :D
 
Jim beat me to it: what are your shop temps at? If the ambient air is colder it makes a huge difference in the amount of peel you get.

Also, little to no peel isnt a realistic goal. My goal as a front yard hack is “let’s just get through this day and I’ll fix it in the cut and buff if I’ve got to.” ;)
 
dhutton01 said:
I came across this pic yesterday for all the guys beating themselves up over a little orange peel/texture in their paint. This is Dutch Boys, a high dollar shop. You can see it in the reflections of the lights.

Don
View attachment 29778
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I would be happy for that outcome for me....On my parts I would say what I am dealing with is about 2x worse. Hard to say with pics at times. since what I am saying is me up close and able to feel it, vs 8-10 feet. I figure by this time next week I will have it figured out......should be on to spraying the hood by that point.
 
Lizer said:
Jim beat me to it: what are your shop temps at? If the ambient air is colder it makes a huge difference in the amount of peel you get.

Also, little to no peel isnt a realistic goal. My goal as a front yard hack is “let’s just get through this day and I’ll fix it in the cut and buff if I’ve got to.” ;)
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Let us say temps were around 70-71. It has been a tad too cool here to paint IMO without heat or direct sunshine, but we had a warm front move in and I took advantage of it on the last day. I have kept my paint inside the house at steady 72 degrees. Definitely not 90 degree weather. If it was I would have the issue on doors, hood, and an 8ft. bed :D :D
Cut and buff just worries me....I am going to have to deal with that LOL.
 
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