Friend of mine used matrix at his collision shop some. He had been in the collision/ paint body business for years. He told me then, years ago, that it was ppg. He said it smelled and sprayed just like ppg.
Matrix MPB 9000 and universal clears
- Thread starter hobbesnmina2001
- Start date
Toolin
Promoted Users
hobbesnmina2001,
As an enthusiast and not an expert myself as you claim to be. I try to show humility in my response to the many members on this site I respect. Trust me. They do know what they are talking about. Especially regarding SPI product. No one will steer you wrong without being corrected by a more knowledgeable member. The SPI site is a true gem... Respect the members comments. Listen and you may learn!
As an enthusiast and not an expert myself as you claim to be. I try to show humility in my response to the many members on this site I respect. Trust me. They do know what they are talking about. Especially regarding SPI product. No one will steer you wrong without being corrected by a more knowledgeable member. The SPI site is a true gem... Respect the members comments. Listen and you may learn!
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Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
Just curious, was it based on DBU or DBC?
crashtech
Combo Man & Mod
In actual practice PPG DBC is about the least chip resistant finish I've even used. If the base is unactivated it will pretty much fly off a front end that's exposed to typical stone chip driving conditions where I live. The older DBU was actually not as bad, but I think any auto paint shop using a PPG solvent basecoat is still using DBC to this day, correct me if I'm wrong.
Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
I think DBU was discontinued 5 or 6 years ago. I actually liked DBU better than DBC. But it's been 20 years or more since I sprayed any.
Whats the famous saying? The rest of the story!!!
Great post.
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Elwood, all, thanks, this information is what I was looking for.
I came across some information yesterday about what your saying that epoxy is superior in grip and sealing in the Hot Rod forum because the non epoxy polyurethane primers aren’t as good at sealing moisture out and shrink.
I hope you all understand in looking for answers I prefer to find answers to problems beyond opinions. People like what they use, that’s natural and I prefer a simpler systems that works and hopefully less steps for better consistency. Posts 5, 9, 10 and others talk positive about SPI with information. I don’t have a problem with steps but putting on layers of different components doesn’t make sense to me from a shrinkage perspective
if I can use one or two. I like the idea of using epoxy and a poly higher build or just epoxy if it builds on some jobs.
I graduated from Alfred Tech in 1972 with a collision and painting degree and had good grades but I only really spent a couple of years working in shops. I went to the plants because of better wages and benefits and painted part time here and there. Lacquer and acrylic enamel until I painted single stage lacquer and Imron clear. I did a little bit with lacquer candy apple and Imron clear. I took a seminar in frame pulling which helped me a lot in repairing some cars on the side but none of that qualifies me to be an expert like guys who do it day after day full time. My college collision painter was an excellent teacher and painter. Ben use to say “boys, just when you think your a pretty good painter move to Florida and you can learn how to paint all over again!”
Kohler Bros King Kong is our old car. This picture is from 2013 or so and the car was painted originally in 2004 with all PPG by my friend Dewey Dilcher who’s paint won the best paint in show for King King a couple of times. Dewey won awards with 3 other gasser hot rods as well.
The body was not totally repainted, only the rear fenders and front end. When I built King Kong the first time I built him so we could do nostalgia racing and after 3 years we decided to restore him as he raced in the 60’s. For my first build up I didn’t want to take a chance with the original 60’s fiberglass front end and some accident so I got a Griz Bear (former Corvette guy) fiberglass front end (all separate parts) and I molded them into copy of original 4 parts front. When we restored KK we wanted to use the originals and that’s the reason for partial repaint. I had saved the original parts of the car and undid the cage, front and rear suspension and steering we used for racing.
That front end was tired and had cracks as you can imagine because KK was raced hard back in the day. Dewey knocked the ball out of the park restoring the original front end and it looks as good as the first. The graphics were done before and second time by Dan the Sign Man Delaney who’s an artist, drag racing historian and painter in his own right.
In 2019!we took KK to a Concours D’Elegance in Michigan and KK was awarded a Red ribbon!
I hope you guys understand more about me and while I understand a lot about paint my it doesn’t qualify me as an expert painter.
I look forward to becoming acquainted with SPI and God willing I can live long enough to get some paint work in.
BTW King Kong resides in Irwin Kroiz (Corvette collector’s) museum these days and Dewey’s and Dan’s work is as it has been for a long time.
www.hotrodders.com
“Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer”
I came across some information yesterday about what your saying that epoxy is superior in grip and sealing in the Hot Rod forum because the non epoxy polyurethane primers aren’t as good at sealing moisture out and shrink.
I hope you all understand in looking for answers I prefer to find answers to problems beyond opinions. People like what they use, that’s natural and I prefer a simpler systems that works and hopefully less steps for better consistency. Posts 5, 9, 10 and others talk positive about SPI with information. I don’t have a problem with steps but putting on layers of different components doesn’t make sense to me from a shrinkage perspective
I graduated from Alfred Tech in 1972 with a collision and painting degree and had good grades but I only really spent a couple of years working in shops. I went to the plants because of better wages and benefits and painted part time here and there. Lacquer and acrylic enamel until I painted single stage lacquer and Imron clear. I did a little bit with lacquer candy apple and Imron clear. I took a seminar in frame pulling which helped me a lot in repairing some cars on the side but none of that qualifies me to be an expert like guys who do it day after day full time. My college collision painter was an excellent teacher and painter. Ben use to say “boys, just when you think your a pretty good painter move to Florida and you can learn how to paint all over again!”
Kohler Bros King Kong is our old car. This picture is from 2013 or so and the car was painted originally in 2004 with all PPG by my friend Dewey Dilcher who’s paint won the best paint in show for King King a couple of times. Dewey won awards with 3 other gasser hot rods as well.
The body was not totally repainted, only the rear fenders and front end. When I built King Kong the first time I built him so we could do nostalgia racing and after 3 years we decided to restore him as he raced in the 60’s. For my first build up I didn’t want to take a chance with the original 60’s fiberglass front end and some accident so I got a Griz Bear (former Corvette guy) fiberglass front end (all separate parts) and I molded them into copy of original 4 parts front. When we restored KK we wanted to use the originals and that’s the reason for partial repaint. I had saved the original parts of the car and undid the cage, front and rear suspension and steering we used for racing.
That front end was tired and had cracks as you can imagine because KK was raced hard back in the day. Dewey knocked the ball out of the park restoring the original front end and it looks as good as the first. The graphics were done before and second time by Dan the Sign Man Delaney who’s an artist, drag racing historian and painter in his own right.
In 2019!we took KK to a Concours D’Elegance in Michigan and KK was awarded a Red ribbon!
I hope you guys understand more about me and while I understand a lot about paint my it doesn’t qualify me as an expert painter.
I look forward to becoming acquainted with SPI and God willing I can live long enough to get some paint work in.
BTW King Kong resides in Irwin Kroiz (Corvette collector’s) museum these days and Dewey’s and Dan’s work is as it has been for a long time.
DTM primer questions
I have been painting for almost 12 years so I am relatively still inexperienced and I have noticed a lot of suppliers really pushing the use of epoxy primers after blasting, stripping or any use over bare metal. My question is why go to the extra steps of using the epoxy when there are several...
www.hotrodders.com
“Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer”
Attachments
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
I whole heartedly agree and don’t see asking questions and trying to get knowledge as aggressive challenges.
Hope you all understand.
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
I want to clarify that King Kong is a collaboration of work from a number of people including his new owner Irwin Kroiz who after purchasing King Kong had his restorer clean up all the rough edges KK had. The paint and graphics are still the same.Elwood, all, thanks, this information is what I was looking for.
I came across some information yesterday about what your saying that epoxy is superior in grip and sealing in the Hot Rod forum because the non epoxy polyurethane primers aren’t as good at sealing moisture out and shrink.
I hope you all understand in looking for answers I prefer to find answers to problems beyond opinions. People like what they use, that’s natural and I prefer a simpler systems that works and hopefully less steps for better consistency. Posts 5, 9, 10 and others talk positive about SPI with information. I don’t have a problem with steps but putting on layers of different components doesn’t make sense to me from a shrinkage perspectiveView attachment 25140 if I can use one or two. I like the idea of using epoxy and a poly higher build or just epoxy if it builds on some jobs.
I graduated from Alfred Tech in 1972 with a collision and painting degree and had good grades but I only really spent a couple of years working in shops. I went to the plants because of better wages and benefits and painted part time here and there. Lacquer and acrylic enamel until I painted single stage lacquer and Imron clear. I did a little bit with lacquer candy apple and Imron clear. I took a seminar in frame pulling which helped me a lot in repairing some cars on the side but none of that qualifies me to be an expert like guys who do it day after day full time. My college collision painter was an excellent teacher and painter. Ben use to say “boys, just when you think your a pretty good painter move to Florida and you can learn how to paint all over again!”
Kohler Bros King Kong is our old car. This picture is from 2013 or so and the car was painted originally in 2004 with all PPG by my friend Dewey Dilcher who’s paint won the best paint in show for King King a couple of times. Dewey won awards with 3 other gasser hot rods as well.
The body was not totally repainted, only the rear fenders and front end. When I built King Kong the first time I built him so we could do nostalgia racing and after 3 years we decided to restore him as he raced in the 60’s. For my first build up I didn’t want to take a chance with the original 60’s fiberglass front end and some accident so I got a Griz Bear (former Corvette guy) fiberglass front end (all separate parts) and I molded them into copy of original 4 parts front. When we restored KK we wanted to use the originals and that’s the reason for partial repaint. I had saved the original parts of the car and undid the cage, front and rear suspension and steering we used for racing.
That front end was tired and had cracks as you can imagine because KK was raced hard back in the day. Dewey knocked the ball out of the park restoring the original front end and it looks as good as the first. The graphics were done before and second time by Dan the Sign Man Delaney who’s an artist, drag racing historian and painter in his own right.
In 2019!we took KK to a Concours D’Elegance in Michigan and KK was awarded a Red ribbon!
I hope you guys understand more about me and while I understand a lot about paint my it doesn’t qualify me as an expert painter.
I look forward to becoming acquainted with SPI and God willing I can live long enough to get some paint work in.
BTW King Kong resides in Irwin Kroiz (Corvette collector’s) museum these days and Dewey’s and Dan’s work is as it has been for a long time.
DTM primer questions
I have been painting for almost 12 years so I am relatively still inexperienced and I have noticed a lot of suppliers really pushing the use of epoxy primers after blasting, stripping or any use over bare metal. My question is why go to the extra steps of using the epoxy when there are several...
“Your absolutely right ,theres way to many steps and the extra expense plus the drying time between primers,what a PITA... wouldnt it be nice to have an epoxy primer thats also buildable if you need it too so you only need one primer for the whole job what about the sealer lets include that too,One primer for all your needs...and lets keep the price down to around 150.00 a gal and an ez 1:1 mix ratio so you actually get two sprayable gal.and when reduced 10-40% it makes a great sealer....and lets have a tech hot line thatcan answear any and all paint related questions for the pro's AND newbies..
Sounds like a dream dont it....
SPI epoxy primer”
rusty428cj
Rusty Gillis
I have been using SPI products in my shop on all of our restorations since 2005. Everyone starts with bare metal and SPI epoxy either black or red oxide.
MJM
Promoted Users
Here's a little tech tip about SPI epoxy. To get a higher build out of the epoxy, let it induce for four hours. I've even let it induce over night. Just remember to mix it well before use to break the solids down.
You can also use SPI epoxy on undercarriage parts that don't see UV light. The color won't fade.
I've enjoyed reading your questions. Looking forward to seeing your upcoming projects.
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hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Elwood the story I got from the distributor was the guys who started Matrix came from PPG and their program was to have a PPG compatible product that could be competitive in price and popularity.
I don’t know anything else other than what I was told. In searching information on Matrix I found out about the Count Custom and some other motorcycle painters that like it.
There’s a downside to Matrix I heard directly from a local shop owner who told me he use to use Matrix and liked the spray but ran into problems paint matching. Rich is an excellent body man and been painting since he was 15. He had two car repairs that gave him trouble getting the color to match and on the 3rd his wife took the paint back 3 times and the last time they got factory packed over the mixed and that one still didn’t match. At that point he was done with Matrix, went to OReilly’s got Axalta mixed and was able to match it with no issues.
To the guys doing one of custom paint jobs they may be able to deal with product color variances as long as it’s consistent and they’re not looking to match general transportation vehicles. To the guy or shop trying to earn a living repairing for the general public those types of product color problems are a killer.
In looking at the forum and coming from large plants a reality that comes up in failed projects is failure to follow correct procedures. I believe I saw some posts from Barry saying something similar in the daily tech calls he gets.
Again none of this is a personal attack on anyone or product in particular, they’re merely observations and asking questions and getting answers is how I was trained for 42 years in the plants.
Part of the reason I’m interested in SPI is that it’s a smaller family owned company and the products are made in America. I love America and I’m tired of seeing our manufacturing going and gone offshore.
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Elwood you are spot on and your not being crass, you’re sharing your experience. I remember my friend who told me to find a system that would work for me, he told me that getting body men and painters to change products is one of the hardest things ever. Every job takes skill and knowledge and when you learn what works to change means the individual is taking the risk and possibly loosing a lot of time and money. He was fixing a Chevy pickup and needed a door and he was talked into trying an off shore door by the owner of the truck. He spent 1 1/2 days trying to get the door to fit right and it wouldn’t. He took it back and got a new OEM door and got it in and looking good in short time. Now the owner agreed to pay the extra for the OEM but no one reimbursed him for the lost time on the first door.
MJM
Promoted Users
You're welcome.
Now that you've been giving information about SPI products from the members here, as well as the owner, post some pictures of your current project you're working on?
We all enjoy following along with project builds.
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Great tips guys and I just watched a YouTube video that convinced me as to the toughness of epoxy. Also the caution that Barry provided in the help section on non neutralized acid treatment results.
The video is 8 years old and you all have probably seen it but it’s amazing how non neutralized acid keeps epoxy and bondo from sticking but neutralized the epoxy is not only sticking it bends without cracking!
Amazing!
The video is 8 years old and you all have probably seen it but it’s amazing how non neutralized acid keeps epoxy and bondo from sticking but neutralized the epoxy is not only sticking it bends without cracking!
Amazing!
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Thanks for the info, I’m looking forward to trying this.
hobbesnmina2001
New Member
Thanks for your tip, I will try it.